SGV-300 Bigsby experiment

RecRoomSurfer

Joined: Sep 19, 2008
Posts: 206
Canada, eh?
2 Download Pins

Posted on Feb 27 2009 10:33 PM

I had to try this, but, I was disappointed. My goal (dream) was to be able
to use 11 gauge strings and not have the trem arm pulled so tight as to be unusable.
The Bigsby makes 11 gauge strings possible but the tremolo sound it dead and
lifeless, you push down the arm and not much seems to happen. I tried to keep
the string length between the bridge and the front roller of the Bigsby the same as it was with
the original trem mechanism. I think it's that short length that is the problem.
I guess it's back to the drawing board and the original tremolo with 10 gauge strings.
image
In case you're interested I built a new tremolo plate from 1/8 thick steel.
It was easy to do, if you have a drillpress and a grinder.
The new plate attaches with the origianl screws and bridge and Bigsby bolt to
threaded holes in the plate. No new holes need to be drilled in the guitar.
image

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MissingLink

Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 488
Edge of the East China Sea
1 Contributor Pin

Posted on Feb 28 2009 01:46 AM

That's a noble experiment, RecRoomSurfer. Looking at my own 300, I see it's about 4cm from the center of the bridge to the string attachment/rocker piece. Your pic gives the impression that the Bigsby roller is closer than that.

Can you redrill the mounting plate to get the trem assembly further back? I realize this would move the trem arm even further back (relative to stock) than it already is. If that's going to be an impediment, how about another Bigsby with more suitable proportions? Or you could fabricate a longer arm for the one you have now.

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echobeach

Joined: May 21, 2007
Posts: 220
Redland City, Australia

Posted on Feb 28 2009 05:36 AM

gee that looks great, a polished stainless steel plate would look even more. awesome

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WR

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
2 Link Pins

Posted on Feb 28 2009 09:08 AM

there's a rather simple mod for the original trem to take heavier strings. needed are two nails that fit into the trem post's holes that take the springs originally, one big ass thick nail, and a 60 watt or up solder iron. with a small pair of pliers, bend the small nails around the big one so that the small ones hold the big one, still stick out. put the small ones into the trem post' s holes so that the big nail becomes a bar between the two posts, and soleder it together at the posts. 10 minutes work. you can now use as many springs (standard fender size) as you want.

you'lll loose the smoothness of the tremsystem tho, which is a plus of the sgv imo. getting used to 010 strings would work better.

—

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

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Mel

Joined: Feb 25, 2008
Posts: 321
Canada's Wet Coast
2 News Pins

Posted on Feb 28 2009 12:14 PM

I used the same sort of method for my Reverend Club King 290 but I went with available commercial parts. My 290 had a standard stop tailpiece. The parts I ordered online were a roller bridge, Vibramate and a B5 Bigsby:

The Vibramate fits a lot of stock stop tailpieces and the Bigsby mounts on to it. Whole thing took me about 20 minutes to assemble. No muss, no fuss, and no holes to drill. And it works great.

http://www.vibramate.com/

The only real problem I had was finding a Bigsby B5 that was reasonably priced...

—

Mel

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MelWaldorf

Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 648
1 POTD Pin

Posted on Feb 28 2009 01:22 PM

You could try stringing up the bigsby without the roller bar; the string angle would be poor but you'd find out if the string angle/length with the roller bar is the problem.

Cool experiment, and excellent craftsmanship.

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Dane_Brammage

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 203
3 Contributor Pins

Posted on Feb 28 2009 02:10 PM

That Vibramate looks interesting. What's the distance from the stop tailpiece studs to the back edge? (I have my eye on a guitar with very little room between the stop tailpiece and the edge of the body.)

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RecRoomSurfer

Joined: Sep 19, 2008
Posts: 206
Canada, eh?
2 Download Pins

Posted on Mar 01 2009 10:48 AM

MelWaldorf
You could try stringing up the bigsby without the roller bar; the string angle would be poor but you'd find out if the string angle/length with the roller bar is the problem.

If you string it without the roller the strings are above the bridge.
So, to decrease the string angle I raised the front of the Bigsby.
Now the angle in more like with the original tremolo. This works better,
there is fuller range of tremolo effect.
I'll have to play it for a while to see if I like it.

p.s. I confess the Vibramate was my inspiration.

Original Tremolo
image

Bigsby mounted flat
image

Bigsby rasied at front
image

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zak

Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
1 Link Pin

Posted on Mar 01 2009 10:57 AM

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:28:56

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Mel

Joined: Feb 25, 2008
Posts: 321
Canada's Wet Coast
2 News Pins

Posted on Mar 01 2009 01:07 PM

Dane_Brammage
That Vibramate looks interesting. What's the distance from the stop tailpiece studs to the back edge? (I have my eye on a guitar with very little room between the stop tailpiece and the edge of the body.)

As I measure it, it's pretty close to 3 3/8". When I started to put mine together I was a little surprised that it just dropped into place.

I was also surprised that it stays tune quite well.

—

Mel

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BJB

Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
United States

Posted on Mar 11 2009 07:14 PM

Did you adjust the tension on the Bigsby coil spring? I've gotten a modern Bigsby to work with flatwound .011-.050 strings, but I had to adjust the nut that puts tension on the spring. I may have even added a washer, or removed one. It was a long time ago so I don't remember!

I have a Harmony with a Bigsby and it works great with flatwound .010's. The guitar is from 1965 so maybe the spring is meant to work with heavier strings.

By the way, your thick baseplate is a great idea. By raising the Bigsby, you are decreasing the angle the strings make as they pass under the roller, which reduces friction. Good luck with your project!

—

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

Top

RecRoomSurfer Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Posts: 206 Canada, eh?	Posted on Feb 27 2009 10:33 PM I had to try this, but, I was disappointed. My goal (dream) was to be able to use 11 gauge strings and not have the trem arm pulled so tight as to be unusable. The Bigsby makes 11 gauge strings possible but the tremolo sound it dead and lifeless, you push down the arm and not much seems to happen. I tried to keep the string length between the bridge and the front roller of the Bigsby the same as it was with the original trem mechanism. I think it's that short length that is the problem. I guess it's back to the drawing board and the original tremolo with 10 gauge strings. image In case you're interested I built a new tremolo plate from 1/8 thick steel. It was easy to do, if you have a drillpress and a grinder. The new plate attaches with the origianl screws and bridge and Bigsby bolt to threaded holes in the plate. No new holes need to be drilled in the guitar. image Top
MissingLink Joined: Jul 23, 2008 Posts: 488 Edge of the East China Sea	Posted on Feb 28 2009 01:46 AM That's a noble experiment, RecRoomSurfer. Looking at my own 300, I see it's about 4cm from the center of the bridge to the string attachment/rocker piece. Your pic gives the impression that the Bigsby roller is closer than that. Can you redrill the mounting plate to get the trem assembly further back? I realize this would move the trem arm even further back (relative to stock) than it already is. If that's going to be an impediment, how about another Bigsby with more suitable proportions? Or you could fabricate a longer arm for the one you have now. Top
echobeach Joined: May 21, 2007 Posts: 220 Redland City, Australia	Posted on Feb 28 2009 05:36 AM gee that looks great, a polished stainless steel plate would look even more. awesome Top
WR Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 3832 netherlands	Posted on Feb 28 2009 09:08 AM there's a rather simple mod for the original trem to take heavier strings. needed are two nails that fit into the trem post's holes that take the springs originally, one big ass thick nail, and a 60 watt or up solder iron. with a small pair of pliers, bend the small nails around the big one so that the small ones hold the big one, still stick out. put the small ones into the trem post' s holes so that the big nail becomes a bar between the two posts, and soleder it together at the posts. 10 minutes work. you can now use as many springs (standard fender size) as you want. you'lll loose the smoothness of the tremsystem tho, which is a plus of the sgv imo. getting used to 010 strings would work better. — Rules to live by #314: "When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is." https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/ Top
Mel Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 321 Canada's Wet Coast	Posted on Feb 28 2009 12:14 PM I used the same sort of method for my Reverend Club King 290 but I went with available commercial parts. My 290 had a standard stop tailpiece. The parts I ordered online were a roller bridge, Vibramate and a B5 Bigsby: The Vibramate fits a lot of stock stop tailpieces and the Bigsby mounts on to it. Whole thing took me about 20 minutes to assemble. No muss, no fuss, and no holes to drill. And it works great. http://www.vibramate.com/ The only real problem I had was finding a Bigsby B5 that was reasonably priced... — Mel Top
MelWaldorf Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 648	Posted on Feb 28 2009 01:22 PM You could try stringing up the bigsby without the roller bar; the string angle would be poor but you'd find out if the string angle/length with the roller bar is the problem. Cool experiment, and excellent craftsmanship. Top
Dane_Brammage Joined: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 203	Posted on Feb 28 2009 02:10 PM That Vibramate looks interesting. What's the distance from the stop tailpiece studs to the back edge? (I have my eye on a guitar with very little room between the stop tailpiece and the edge of the body.) Top
RecRoomSurfer Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Posts: 206 Canada, eh?	Posted on Mar 01 2009 10:48 AM MelWaldorf You could try stringing up the bigsby without the roller bar; the string angle would be poor but you'd find out if the string angle/length with the roller bar is the problem. If you string it without the roller the strings are above the bridge. So, to decrease the string angle I raised the front of the Bigsby. Now the angle in more like with the original tremolo. This works better, there is fuller range of tremolo effect. I'll have to play it for a while to see if I like it. p.s. I confess the Vibramate was my inspiration. Original Tremolo image Bigsby mounted flat image Bigsby rasied at front image Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Mar 01 2009 10:57 AM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:28:56 Top
Mel Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 321 Canada's Wet Coast	Posted on Mar 01 2009 01:07 PM Dane_Brammage That Vibramate looks interesting. What's the distance from the stop tailpiece studs to the back edge? (I have my eye on a guitar with very little room between the stop tailpiece and the edge of the body.) As I measure it, it's pretty close to 3 3/8". When I started to put mine together I was a little surprised that it just dropped into place. I was also surprised that it stays tune quite well. — Mel Top
BJB Joined: Jul 28, 2008 Posts: 413	Posted on Mar 11 2009 07:14 PM Did you adjust the tension on the Bigsby coil spring? I've gotten a modern Bigsby to work with flatwound .011-.050 strings, but I had to adjust the nut that puts tension on the spring. I may have even added a washer, or removed one. It was a long time ago so I don't remember! I have a Harmony with a Bigsby and it works great with flatwound .010's. The guitar is from 1965 so maybe the spring is meant to work with heavier strings. By the way, your thick baseplate is a great idea. By raising the Bigsby, you are decreasing the angle the strings make as they pass under the roller, which reduces friction. Good luck with your project! — If it ain't broke, fix it until it is. Top

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SGV-300 Bigsby experiment