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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Music General Discussion »

Fast surf!

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Brian Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 19305 Des Moines, Iowa, USA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 11:52 AM If you know how many measures there are in a song, and the time signature is 4/4, then total_beats = 4 * num_measures; bpm = total_beats / song_duration_in_minutes; This assumes a constant (steady) beat for the whole song or passage you are mesauring. Disclaimer: I'm not a musician so lay into me if needed. — Site dude - S3 Agent #202 Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me "It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea Top
drumsdick Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 224 Central CT, USA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 12:00 PM I practice and teach drumming with a Korg electronic metronome, with earbuds, for practicing stick control: http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=129 The cost about $30 most places. Very portable, as it fits in my shirt pocket. The trick to playing to any click (drums, anyway) is that you actually cannot hear it if you are playing in perfect time. You only hear it when you are off the beat. I mentioned the Tempo Ref in my post above. We call it my "Pacemaker", because it actully measures what I am kicking for BPM, and hopefully what the guitars are calibrated to (on a good night, anyway - they really never listen to me). Most surf tunes are composed in 4/4 time signature (4 beats per measure, and a quater note gets one beat). The tempo marking is usually noted on a typical piece of sheet music. Think of it in how fast we are all tapping our foot while playing, and there's your beats per minute reference. You might hear guitars or drums playing 8th notes, triplets,or 16ths on top of the quarter notes on the kick drum, but it is really the kick drum that follows the BPM. To keep the "fun" in dysfunctional - try playing the electronic metronome through your monitors or everyone's earphones at your next band practice, and watch the sparks fly. Good times for all! — *Dick B. The Aquatudes http://www.aquatudes.com http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Aquatudes/107419619521 Top
DannySnyder Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 11058 Berkeley, CA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 12:51 PM Brian If you know how many measures there are in a song, and the time signature is 4/4, then total_beats = 4 * num_measures; bpm = total_beats / song_duration_in_minutes; This assumes a constant (steady) beat for the whole song or passage you are mesauring. Disclaimer: I'm not a musician so lay into me if needed. Brian, who's going to sit there and count all the measures in a song? There's always the empirical method. Get a drum machine or metronome and start guessing and adjust until it keeps the beat. — Danny Snyder "With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF Top
Brian Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 19305 Des Moines, Iowa, USA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:15 PM DannySnyder Brian, who's going to sit there and count all the measures in a song? You mean you songwriters don't know how many measures are in your own songs? You could do it over a shorter length, maybe a few measures. DannySnyder There's always the empirical method. Get a drum machine or metronome and start guessing and adjust until it keeps the beat. Yeah, I've done that before. — Site dude - S3 Agent #202 Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me "It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:19 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:10:00 Top
DannySnyder Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 11058 Berkeley, CA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:37 PM Too much room for error Zak. I'd go with beat counting or empirical. As a carpenter I always use empirical as a the first option, using math always makes for greater risks of mistakes. — Danny Snyder "With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF Top
IvanP Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:38 PM drumsdick Most surf tunes are composed in 4/4 time signature (4 beats per measure, and a quater note gets one beat). The tempo marking is usually noted on a typical piece of sheet music. Think of it in how fast we are all tapping our foot while playing, and there's your beats per minute reference. You might hear guitars or drums playing 8th notes, triplets,or 16ths on top of the quarter notes on the kick drum, but it is really the kick drum that follows the BPM. That's exactly what I was looking for. This is how I was understanding this whole thing as well, so I'm glad that you confirmed it - thank you. — Ivan Lords of Atlantis on Facebook The Madeira Official Website The Madeira on Facebook The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook The Space Cossacks on Facebook The Madeira Channel on YouTube Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:42 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:10:04 Top
IvanP Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:43 PM drumsdick I practice and teach drumming with a Korg electronic metronome, with earbuds, for practicing stick control: http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=129 The cost about $30 most places. Very portable, as it fits in my shirt pocket. The trick to playing to any click (drums, anyway) is that you actually cannot hear it if you are playing in perfect time. You only hear it when you are off the beat. To keep the "fun" in dysfunctional - try playing the electronic metronome through your monitors or everyone's earphones at your next band practice, and watch the sparks fly. Good times for all! This is actually what I do for my silly little songwriting demos - I have an old 4-track cassette recorder and no drum machine, so I always just put the metronome click on one of the 4 tracks. Sometimes when recording the guitars over that I have to really turn up the 'click track' pretty high in my headphones. I think that damn metronome has probably destroyed more of my hearing than all the live gigs I ever played! :\| It's like something boring into my brain! It can get painful... — Ivan Lords of Atlantis on Facebook The Madeira Official Website The Madeira on Facebook The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook The Space Cossacks on Facebook The Madeira Channel on YouTube Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:47 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:10:41 Top
IvanP Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:47 PM zak I would say that if you don't know how many bars there are in a tune, counting the bpm should be last on the list of concerns. Ummm, I've never counted the bars in any of the songs I've written or played. It never even occured to me to do such a thing. What does that do for you, exactly? — Ivan Lords of Atlantis on Facebook The Madeira Official Website The Madeira on Facebook The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook The Space Cossacks on Facebook The Madeira Channel on YouTube Top
GeologyRocksCA Joined: Jan 30, 2009 Posts: 242 Cotati, CA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:48 PM I used a stop watch to measure out how long it took for faster songs to play 8 bars, which came out to about 10 seconds. That comes out to 192 notes per 60 seconds, but figuring that the drummer is at least playing half notes, then that comes out to at least 384 hits per minute. That is almost 1,000 beats per 2.5 minute song. If we could figure out how to affix generators to various drummers, we might be able to solve some of our energy problems. Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:49 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:13:24 Top
IvanP Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:52 PM zak IvanP Ummm, I've never counted the bars in any of the songs I've written or played. It never even occured to me to do such a thing. What does that do for you, exactly? Makes explaining song structure pretty damn simple. Ah, so it's a matter of teaching the song to others. Yes, that would help. — Ivan Lords of Atlantis on Facebook The Madeira Official Website The Madeira on Facebook The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook The Space Cossacks on Facebook The Madeira Channel on YouTube Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Feb 17 2009 01:57 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:13:28 Top
DannySnyder Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 11058 Berkeley, CA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 02:24 PM zak DannySnyder Too much room for error Zak. I'd go with beat counting or empirical. Are you joking or are you being serious??...I honestly can't tell. How can there be "room for error" counting bars? If you can count up to 4 and do simple multiplication...there can't really be any room for error. I would say that if you don't know how many bars there are in a tune, counting the bpm should be last on the list of concerns. Once again I think you expect to much from us mere surf musicians. I've never had occasion to need to know how many bars are in a song. Plus, if the song has some unusual structure - maybe an extra couple measures - it'll throw off your math when computing the tempo. It would require you to sit and listen to the whole song first. Whereas counting beats only takes 15-60 seconds to get an accurate assessment of the tempo. — Danny Snyder "With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF Top
tonybologna Joined: Mar 06, 2006 Posts: 796 Oakland	Posted on Feb 17 2009 02:33 PM I've actually have huge excell charts with the measures in our songs mapped out. I can send you a .zip file Danny. — Science friction burns my fingers. Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Feb 17 2009 02:34 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 22:13:31 Top
DannySnyder Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 11058 Berkeley, CA	Posted on Feb 17 2009 03:24 PM I didn't want to know, I'm happy with using my ears. If you recall, Ivan posed the question of how does one determine approximate BPM of a song. I guess I injected the idea of finding the simplest way into the conversation. Sorry to have confused the matter. — Danny Snyder "With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF Top
Jon Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 1076 Columbus, OH	Posted on Feb 17 2009 04:59 PM And I'm sorry too. Sorry I read this thread! Hey-oh! Top

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