wooza
I've been pretty uncomfortable with my guitar tone for a while and just yesterday finally gave a meticulous analytical run through of gear combinations and settings to find any causes for alarm... and I think I've narrowed it down to a bad speaker.

Comparing my cabinet with Zanti's it's pretty apparent that my speaker sounds like butt. It lacks lots of clarity--sounds kinda muffled and quite dissipated, which coupled with reverb just sounds thuddy and murky--no bite and not drippy at all. (It also has a slightly lower volume, but that could just be because I was playing a Bandmaster through a 1x15 (JBL D130F) and Zanti's got a 2x12 cab... right?)

One complicating factor is the fact that the speaker is "doped," which for those who don't know what that means... well, I've forgotten why people dope speakers (it just came like that), but it's got this rim of goop around the outer edge of the speaker cone--kinda like rubber cement or something.

Does anybody know if doping could be the culprit in the crappiness of tone from this speaker? Would simply peeling the stuff off be a viable option and potential fix? I'm not sure if the bad sound is an inherent quality of the speaker itself--I couldn't find any evidence of rips or wear in the cone. Maybe it's just the dope? Maybe it's just a bad JBL? Maybe it's a good JBL and it turns out I just don't like the way they sound? I was quite happy with the sound through the other cabinet I tried, but don't know quite where to attribute the problem with my setup.

Ben, if you like the sound of Mel's amp then you like JBL's (along with a Blonde Showman) Take the speaker into the shop and ask their opinion. JBL recones are expensive and may not be cost effective for you. I have a 15" Cali ceramic you can have cheap if you want to switch it out to try.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

Yeah, ditto what Kyle said.

I think it's pretty important to have a 4 ohm speaker load with the Bandmaster. From my experience my Bandmaster sounds like complete hell through any speaker that isn't 4 ohms. A 16 ohm speaker will reduce the tone to mud and extremely low volume.

Also, if speaker dope was so bad why do so many fantastic sounding speakers have it?

www.apollo4.com

SURFmole
if speaker dope was so bad why do so many fantastic sounding speakers have it?

I guess I was under the false impression that doped speakers were less than common. I had no idea it was that widespread... Shows how much I know.

Yeah, I've heard that a higher resistance can cut volume a bit but I was never told it could have such a dramatic impact on tone. So it's sounding more like this is a simple resistance issue or a problem with the speaker itself. I don't know the physics behind it... if the speaker turns out to be fine, would just throwing another 8ohm speaker into the equation reduce the resistance, or should I end up looking for new 4ohm speakers regardless?

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 21:19:28

zak
It shouldn't. Not with a 4ohm vs 8ohm mismatch. Your transformer will work a little harder but the overall volume should be the same and the difference in tone should be minimal - in other words nothing you can't compensate for with your amp's EQ.
.

The overall volume is definitely not the same and it does make a difference in tone. How much depends on your amp. It made a big difference on my Bandmaster with a 16ohm load (might be less of a diff w/ 8ohms and we don't know what impedance the JBL is). It might also make a bigger difference with a Bandmaster than a Bassman or Showman due to the weaker OT. Are you saying you've ran your Bandmaster through a 16ohm load with no change in volume or tone?

www.apollo4.com

Last edited: Dec 30, 2008 06:13:42

zak
Where did I say anything about 16ohms???
The issue here is a 4ohm amp with an 8ohm speaker.

So now you're saying the issue is a 4 ohm amp with an 8 ohm speaker after just saying the volume difference and tone change is negligible

Nah, the issue is that wooza needs to do some troubleshooting to figure out if the problem is the amp, speaker, or impedance mismatch.

Since his amp sounds OK through other speakers it can probably be assumed that the amp is working and it has to be the JBL or the Bandmaster/JBL combo (due to mismatched impedance) causing the poor sound.

I'd recommend trying a different amp (preferrably one with an 8ohm output if the JBL is an 8ohm speaker) through the JBL before sending it out for a recone. It also seems pointless to pay for a recone when you could put the $60+ towards a new speaker of the correct impedance.

My experience has been that Bandmasters are highly sensitive to speaker load (more so than other amps). YMMV.

www.apollo4.com

Live and learn Ben, we've all been there. Sell the thing and move on. Consider replacing the Output Transformer too as many suggest to increase headroom, I just ordered a Bassman OT from Mercury Mag for my Bandmaster. The one I ordered has multiple impedence taps so I can always match my speakers. It's not cheap though, costs as much as a speaker.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

I recently went through the same thing you are, Ben.

I have a Dual Showman 4ohm head, and was running a 4ohm reconed JBL 1x15" I had to crank the amp to get much sound out of it. I had the amp looked at - it checked out 100%. I ordered a Weber Cali 15" 4 ohm - better, but still not the sound.

I ran into a 66' Bandmaster cabinet 2x12, with some Eminence Patriot speakers in it, and bought it for the cabinet, figuring I can sell the speaker on ebay, and buy some "good" speakers. Just for fun, I plugged it in, and the Showman head came to life - Tons more volume, more sparkle, more drip. Sounds like I want it to.

This whole thing has got me re-thinking everything I thought I knew about what I thought I needed to play surf. Eminence Patriot speakers? WTF?

If you like Zanti's cab sound, go that route.

"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"

DannySnyder
Except they're in the same band and play the same guitar too, they should have different tones don't you think? Good tones, but different.

I agree - they should have different sounds - and that will probably happen even if they have the same cabinet and guitar. Amp and reverb settings, pickup selection, etc.

Ben said he was quite happy with the sound of Zantis cabinet. So, rather than get hung up on what he is "supposed to" like....I.E. JBL 15" speakers, maybe he's right to take your advice and move on. Or maybe he should try some other 15" speakers. Either way, it sounds like he has a speaker that he doesn't like, and he should get something else.

"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"

wow is my cabinet THAT popular ?? haha

-Zanti

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