Alternate tunings?

mfanch

Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Posts: 24
Seattle

Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:10 PM

Who likes something other than standerd tuning and what do you use?

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JakeDobner

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
5 News Pins

Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:14 PM

I don't have a great musical mind, so I like to stick to standard tuning. However I do on occasion tune to open d or drop d. I've been doing a lot of drop d lately. Takes just a second to tune to drop d so it's nice to just mess around with it.

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Ruhar

Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
United States

Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:26 PM

I recently recorded using DADGAD tuning for an acoustic intro on a new tune.

—

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

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zak

Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
1 Link Pin

Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:38 PM

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 20:21:33

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Stormtiger

Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2688
Ventura, CA
United States

Posted on Oct 10 2008 05:31 PM

I learned an unrecorded Dave Wronski song in dropped C. I never would would have thought of tuning that low but it sounds pretty cool and most open strings sound good with it.

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badash

Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 1732

Posted on Oct 12 2008 03:48 PM

I've spent years playing in open tunings (G, D, DADGAD) and my experience may not translate universally but it might make sense to some. We all play around patterns. It's entertaining to poke fun at "blues noodlers" but folks here are "surf noodlers" There are notes that sound "surfy" in unison, or in a certain order. It's why you can pick up your guitar and string together Miserlou, Baja, and just about any other surf song in "E" without even trying to make a Medley. Just start another and it fits great. If you write a song and think "that sounds great! But it isn't surf" You stepped outside the surf conventions.

So alternate tunings give you different patterns and chord shapes and can certainly lead to spurts of creativity (mostly when you first learn the tunings) but to make it sound like a "surf song" or a "country blues", or a "Celtic song", or a "ragtime" song you still have follow certain conventions, scales, chords, etc.

So for "discovering" melodies, riffs, etc. toying with alternate tunings for something like surf can be helpful, but for performing it? If it sounds like a "surf song" it sounds like a surf song, and sure you can switch back and forth between open E minor and open E (if you're lazy, E minor alone would cover it) and play surf the way Keith Richards plays his music. In fact it would be fun and could help keep you "fresh", but I personally don't have that much time. Would Keith Richards have come up with "Can't you hear me knockin'" without open G? Who knows. But I do know when I had to play it in Bars I played it in standard tuning and I don't think there was more than a 3 fret stretch at any point where Keith just barred with his index or made a 1 fret stretch...

Now please don't throw bricks. I'm not trying to rain on the open tuning parade, in fact it can really open up the neck for you and increase your overall knowledge of the guitar and the way standard tuning works! I'm just saying I went down that road and it can be a fun habit, but for me at least it wasn't a lifestyle... Oh, and when I say things like "sound like a surf song" or "stepping outside surf conventions" I'm obviously speaking in general terms. There are tons of exceptions any of us can name.

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Surfabilly

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 852
Connersville, Indiana, USA
7 Contributor Pins

Posted on Oct 12 2008 09:53 PM

So far, my only alternate tuned guitar is my Fender So Cal Speed Shop Strat, which is tuned C - C. I've got enough guitars, I should try other alternate tunings, but then I'd run the risk of having to drag those along with me, should I become a gigging musician.

Matt

—

Fast Cars & Loud Guitars!

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B_Zilla

Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 90
Rochester, NY

Posted on Oct 15 2008 04:52 PM

If I'm not playing surf, I'm usually playing some slide blues in open G. It's simple to play, and I just love the sound.

—

"Hope is a waking dream." - Aristotle

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zak

Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
1 Link Pin

Posted on Oct 15 2008 04:56 PM

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 20:32:16

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MissingLink

Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 488
Edge of the East China Sea
1 Contributor Pin

Posted on Oct 17 2008 12:39 AM

I messed around with drop D briefly, but didn't find what I was looking for (namely, more beef at the bottom end) until I tried dropped C#, with the low E string tuned to D#. After the last time I took the guitar apart, I switched back to standard, just to get a better sense of the difference. Since getting the Yamaha, I'm thinking of repeating the C# experiment as an alternative to heavier strings.

Those steel guitars look amazing, by the way. I got to hear (but not play) a National Tricone a few years back. Do these sound similar? I'm assuming the names denote triple and dual resonators respectively.

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zak

Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
1 Link Pin

Posted on Oct 17 2008 12:52 AM

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 20:35:29

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MissingLink

Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 488
Edge of the East China Sea
1 Contributor Pin

Posted on Oct 17 2008 01:21 AM

but interesting pics, thanks! I've always wanted to see inside a Tricone.

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mad_dog

Joined: Sep 23, 2008
Posts: 349
Montclair, NJ

Posted on Oct 19 2008 08:27 PM

Interesting discussion, especially Badash' comments. I too have spent lots of time on alternate tunings, but for me the lessons learned are a bit different.

Dabbled in G and A, but always preferred open D. Then, in the last 10 years or so, mainly open E for electric work. Lately, lots of dropped D. Alternate tunings started off for me as an effect almost, a way to play slide easier. Over time (decades), they've become a huge part of my musical identity. They open doors, creatively. Where songs or patterns end up, which genre tunings serve, has never seemed all that important. The learning part is. Advances made in one tuning magically (it seems) lead to advances in another. Often I'll come up with a riff or song in one tuning, end up playing it in another later.

What I like best about alternate tunings is how they change chord voicing, change the feel of things. So you can play basically the same thing as the guy next to you in standard, but it sounds completely different.

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badash

Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 1732

Posted on Oct 19 2008 08:40 PM

mad_dog
Interesting discussion, especially Badash' comments. I too have spent lots of time on alternate tunings, but for me the lessons learned are a bit different.

.

I figured my experience wasn't universal I found myself most often writing in standard, and we're talking intricate fingerpicked stuff, and then seeing which tuning made the thing easiest to play. Eventually I just bit the bullet and forced myself to develop techniques that let me play "impossible" things in standard. Then again I did develop sever nerve and tendon damage and am on year 3 of retraining my hands to work Hmmm... Never thought of that before...

I definitely agree that tunings can lead to creativity, but as I said as I "mastered" them I found myself falling into patterns. But then again I'm a hack at heart. You seem to have avoided that trap. Some do, most don't. The transference of learning from one to the other is another area I agree. It really helps your "spatial" thinking about the neck in general. Great post. Thanks.

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planish

Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 473
Sackville, New Brunswick
Canada

Posted on Nov 05 2008 11:41 PM

For some of my half-assed finger-picking I like to use DGDGBE or just EGDGBE. Mostly for Celtic stuff, (like March of the King of Laois) because you get that drone thing going on.

—

I'm not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.

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oestmann

Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 584
Adelaide
Australia

Posted on Nov 06 2008 05:56 AM

planish
For some of my half-assed finger-picking I like to use DGDGBE or just EGDGBE. Mostly for Celtic stuff, (like March of the King of Laois) because you get that drone thing going on.

Planish, do you use a particular Celtic scale ?

—

Tim O
oestmann guitar

tunes

clips

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mfanch Joined: Jul 13, 2008 Posts: 24 Seattle	Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:10 PM Who likes something other than standerd tuning and what do you use? Top
JakeDobner Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 12159 Seattle	Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:14 PM I don't have a great musical mind, so I like to stick to standard tuning. However I do on occasion tune to open d or drop d. I've been doing a lot of drop d lately. Takes just a second to tune to drop d so it's nice to just mess around with it. Top
Ruhar Joined: Jun 21, 2007 Posts: 3909 San Diego, CA	Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:26 PM I recently recorded using DADGAD tuning for an acoustic intro on a new tune. — Ryan The Secret Samurai Website The Secret Samurai on Facebook Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Oct 10 2008 03:38 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 20:21:33 Top
Stormtiger Joined: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 2688 Ventura, CA	Posted on Oct 10 2008 05:31 PM I learned an unrecorded Dave Wronski song in dropped C. I never would would have thought of tuning that low but it sounds pretty cool and most open strings sound good with it. Top
badash Joined: Aug 18, 2006 Posts: 1732	Posted on Oct 12 2008 03:48 PM I've spent years playing in open tunings (G, D, DADGAD) and my experience may not translate universally but it might make sense to some. We all play around patterns. It's entertaining to poke fun at "blues noodlers" but folks here are "surf noodlers" There are notes that sound "surfy" in unison, or in a certain order. It's why you can pick up your guitar and string together Miserlou, Baja, and just about any other surf song in "E" without even trying to make a Medley. Just start another and it fits great. If you write a song and think "that sounds great! But it isn't surf" You stepped outside the surf conventions. So alternate tunings give you different patterns and chord shapes and can certainly lead to spurts of creativity (mostly when you first learn the tunings) but to make it sound like a "surf song" or a "country blues", or a "Celtic song", or a "ragtime" song you still have follow certain conventions, scales, chords, etc. So for "discovering" melodies, riffs, etc. toying with alternate tunings for something like surf can be helpful, but for performing it? If it sounds like a "surf song" it sounds like a surf song, and sure you can switch back and forth between open E minor and open E (if you're lazy, E minor alone would cover it) and play surf the way Keith Richards plays his music. In fact it would be fun and could help keep you "fresh", but I personally don't have that much time. Would Keith Richards have come up with "Can't you hear me knockin'" without open G? Who knows. But I do know when I had to play it in Bars I played it in standard tuning and I don't think there was more than a 3 fret stretch at any point where Keith just barred with his index or made a 1 fret stretch... Now please don't throw bricks. I'm not trying to rain on the open tuning parade, in fact it can really open up the neck for you and increase your overall knowledge of the guitar and the way standard tuning works! I'm just saying I went down that road and it can be a fun habit, but for me at least it wasn't a lifestyle... Oh, and when I say things like "sound like a surf song" or "stepping outside surf conventions" I'm obviously speaking in general terms. There are tons of exceptions any of us can name. Top
Surfabilly Joined: Apr 21, 2006 Posts: 852 Connersville, Indiana, USA	Posted on Oct 12 2008 09:53 PM So far, my only alternate tuned guitar is my Fender So Cal Speed Shop Strat, which is tuned C - C. I've got enough guitars, I should try other alternate tunings, but then I'd run the risk of having to drag those along with me, should I become a gigging musician. Matt — Fast Cars & Loud Guitars! Top
B_Zilla Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 90 Rochester, NY	Posted on Oct 15 2008 04:52 PM If I'm not playing surf, I'm usually playing some slide blues in open G. It's simple to play, and I just love the sound. — "Hope is a waking dream." - Aristotle Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Oct 15 2008 04:56 PM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 20:32:16 Top
MissingLink Joined: Jul 23, 2008 Posts: 488 Edge of the East China Sea	Posted on Oct 17 2008 12:39 AM I messed around with drop D briefly, but didn't find what I was looking for (namely, more beef at the bottom end) until I tried dropped C#, with the low E string tuned to D#. After the last time I took the guitar apart, I switched back to standard, just to get a better sense of the difference. Since getting the Yamaha, I'm thinking of repeating the C# experiment as an alternative to heavier strings. Those steel guitars look amazing, by the way. I got to hear (but not play) a National Tricone a few years back. Do these sound similar? I'm assuming the names denote triple and dual resonators respectively. Top
zak Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2728	Posted on Oct 17 2008 12:52 AM This post has been removed by the author. Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 20:35:29 Top
MissingLink Joined: Jul 23, 2008 Posts: 488 Edge of the East China Sea	Posted on Oct 17 2008 01:21 AM but interesting pics, thanks! I've always wanted to see inside a Tricone. Top
mad_dog Joined: Sep 23, 2008 Posts: 349 Montclair, NJ	Posted on Oct 19 2008 08:27 PM Interesting discussion, especially Badash' comments. I too have spent lots of time on alternate tunings, but for me the lessons learned are a bit different. Dabbled in G and A, but always preferred open D. Then, in the last 10 years or so, mainly open E for electric work. Lately, lots of dropped D. Alternate tunings started off for me as an effect almost, a way to play slide easier. Over time (decades), they've become a huge part of my musical identity. They open doors, creatively. Where songs or patterns end up, which genre tunings serve, has never seemed all that important. The learning part is. Advances made in one tuning magically (it seems) lead to advances in another. Often I'll come up with a riff or song in one tuning, end up playing it in another later. What I like best about alternate tunings is how they change chord voicing, change the feel of things. So you can play basically the same thing as the guy next to you in standard, but it sounds completely different. Top
badash Joined: Aug 18, 2006 Posts: 1732	Posted on Oct 19 2008 08:40 PM mad_dog Interesting discussion, especially Badash' comments. I too have spent lots of time on alternate tunings, but for me the lessons learned are a bit different. . I figured my experience wasn't universal I found myself most often writing in standard, and we're talking intricate fingerpicked stuff, and then seeing which tuning made the thing easiest to play. Eventually I just bit the bullet and forced myself to develop techniques that let me play "impossible" things in standard. Then again I did develop sever nerve and tendon damage and am on year 3 of retraining my hands to work Hmmm... Never thought of that before... I definitely agree that tunings can lead to creativity, but as I said as I "mastered" them I found myself falling into patterns. But then again I'm a hack at heart. You seem to have avoided that trap. Some do, most don't. The transference of learning from one to the other is another area I agree. It really helps your "spatial" thinking about the neck in general. Great post. Thanks. Top
planish Joined: Jan 09, 2008 Posts: 473 Sackville, New Brunswick	Posted on Nov 05 2008 11:41 PM For some of my half-assed finger-picking I like to use DGDGBE or just EGDGBE. Mostly for Celtic stuff, (like March of the King of Laois) because you get that drone thing going on. — I'm not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing. Top
oestmann Joined: Mar 06, 2008 Posts: 584 Adelaide	Posted on Nov 06 2008 05:56 AM planish For some of my half-assed finger-picking I like to use DGDGBE or just EGDGBE. Mostly for Celtic stuff, (like March of the King of Laois) because you get that drone thing going on. Planish, do you use a particular Celtic scale ? — Tim O oestmann guitar tunes clips Top

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Alternate tunings?