surfinreverb
Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 108
Flemington, NJ
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Posted on Feb 21 2008 03:48 PM
Moderators note: these first few posts were split out from the Fendertones thread. --BN
From the liner notes on The Whos "A Quick One" compilation...
Bucket T
-"Recorded at IBC studios, 8/66. Released on the Ready Steady Who! EP. "Originally recorded by L.A surf duo Jan and Dean. The Who's surf music influence came solely from Kieth, once the drummer in The Beachcombers, a surf band from Wembley. Kieth's all time favorite song was The Beach Boys' Don't Worry Baby"
From the same EP, a studio version of Barbara Ann and the Batman Theme
The surf influence sure gets around!
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19298
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 21 2008 04:32 PM
Probably off topic, but I've said this before. I really don't think Keith was in a "surf band", as we know it and talk about it here. I just find it hard to believe surf music made it across the pond to England in any measurable way in the early 1960's (the time of the Beachcombers).
Phil Dirt had this same speculation.
Keith apparently did like surf music, but maybe that came later. He also said that Ventures in Space was one of his favorite albums.
Has anyone heard Keith's Beachcombers? Did they ever record? I just wonder what type of music it really was.
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3780
tn
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Posted on Feb 21 2008 04:37 PM
I think it was along the lines of trying to be the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean. I think the songs the Who did were from the Beachcombers old set list.
The Beachcombers although often referred to as a close harmony surf band, actually used to 'belt out' some hard Rock 'n' Roll tunes. The close harmony 'Beach Boys' numbers were performed at the end of the evening. The obligatory 'slow dance' songs. However, Keith loved surf music and it would remain a personal preference throughout his life. His drumming had such a character of it's own that Keith was regularly told to calm down and stop playing so loud!
-drumsoloartist.com
By mid-1963, Moon became an obsessive surf music fan to the extent that Moon imported from America surf records by Dick Dale, the Chantays and the Beach Boys to England.
-thewho.net
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surfinreverb
Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 108
Flemington, NJ
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Posted on Feb 21 2008 05:04 PM
Brian
Probably off topic, but I've said this before. I really don't think Keith was in a "surf band", as we know it and talk about it here. I just find it hard to believe surf music made it across the pond to England in any measurable way in the early 1960's (the time of the Beachcombers).
But............Our present day definition of "surf" has become much narrower than what it was then....if anything, The Beach Boys and Jan and Dean vocally, and Dick Dale instrumetally didn't think of their genres as "surf", but more of it as The California Sound. With the exception of D. Dale, what instrumental surf sound bands were known before the Beach Boys? Surfin Safari was released in mid 1962, and had several instrumentals on it....one COULD make the judgement that those songs were among the first "surf" instrumentals. The first mention of surfing on Ventures albums was in 1963.
So.....Kieth Moon's "surf band" if put together after 1962 could well have been the real thing by that time period's definition.
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wooza
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 1618
Ithaca, NY
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Posted on Feb 21 2008 11:04 PM
If Jan and Dean didn't consider their vocals surf, then I'd have to agree with them. I'm less convinced that Dick Dale didn't consider his music surf back in the early '60s. He released Surfer's Choice (much of it definitely surf) in '62, and the Belairs recorded Mr. Moto in '61.
I think those are widely considered the first surf recordings, with those bands having established themselves as surf instrumentalists before the Beach Boys. Plus, if just from an entirely subjective personal-tastes standpoint, I feel really uncomfortable considering the Beach Boys (or even the Ventures, as you mentioned) as the original golden standards from which we define instrumental surf as a genre.
I may anger some people in my opinion, but I vehemently don't consider Beach Boys-type vocals as "real deal" surf music. I think "California sound" better describes that vocal style. So based on what little info I've seen, I wouldn't consider the Beachcombers surf either, as much a fan as I am of Keith Moon.
Because I personally have only ever considered instrumentals as surf, I feel the genre has expanded greatly since the '60s (again, per my personal definition, as an otherwise progressive surf fan).
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surfinreverb
Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 108
Flemington, NJ
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 07:56 AM
I may anger some people in my opinion, but I vehemently don't consider Beach Boys-type vocals as "real deal" surf music. I think "California sound" better describes that vocal style. So based on what little info I've seen, I wouldn't consider the Beachcombers surf either, as much a fan as I am of Keith Moon.
Because I personally have only ever considered instrumentals as surf, I feel the genre has expanded greatly since the '60s (again, per my personal definition, as an otherwise progressive surf fan).
Nothing at all to get angry about.............My biggest point would be that whenever I say to someone (a non-musician or non-musical type) that I play in a surf band, 9 out of 10 times the reply I get is "Oh, you mean like The Beach Boys?"...... My band does do a few Beach Boy and other vocals to keep things interesting and they are always songs people seem to know and enjoy. If doing a few songs that are "crowd pleasers" allows us to do what we really like the other 90% of the time we'll gladly make that compromise. It's really all about having fun, yes?
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19298
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 08:33 AM
I guess it is possible, it just didn't seem likely to me. I see that Moon joined the Who in 1964. I just didn't think surf music (either the instros or the Beach Boys variant) had penetrated or even made an impact in the UK at that time. I suppose a hip young man like Moon could have picked up on it though.
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3780
tn
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 08:42 AM
Double off-topic!:D
We got on the Keith Moon (off) topic because we all agreed that The Beachcombers were not a surf band. We were discussing what kind of band they might have actually been. I also don't think anyone ever claimed (in this thread) that the BBs or Jan and Dean were surf bands either. I think you're right in describing it as "California Sound" or something along those lines.
Anyway, here's a funny site that may explain some things. Purportedly, the Beachcombers got their name from the film(s) The Beachcomber, which both starred Robert Newton -"Ar, young Jim". This site explores Moon's obsession with and life similarities with Robert Newton.
http://www.mooncove.com/newton/moon.htm
Brian, should we make a new thread about Kieth Moon, or does this still fall under the Fendertones?
PS There sure are a lot of r&b type Dick Dale vocal numbers on Surfer's Choice, so I don't know about > (much of it definitely surf)
, the way you are taking your stand, Wooza.
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Last edited: Feb 22, 2008 09:07:00
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19298
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 08:48 AM
The Keith Moon / surf angle is fascinating, so I split the above posts from the Fendertones thread.
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3780
tn
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 09:03 AM
Thanks, Brian!
By all accounts, the Beach Boys were just as alien and refreshing sounding to the Brits as the Beatles were to the kids in the US. I think they and Jan and Dean were pretty well known in England by 63 and definitely by 64. However, the instrumentals caught on as much. I mean, they barely caught on in the rest of the US, except for a few hits (Wipe Out, Pipeline, Surfin' Bird).
For those English fans that cared, like Moon, they would have to do a little detective work from the instrumentals the Beach Boys did on their albums, to find about about Dick Dale and other surf acts.
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LHR
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 10:56 AM
I missed out on the thread but have always wondered if Keith Moon had filled in for a sick Ringo...
O/T: sorry!
— SSIV
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tonybologna
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 796
Oakland
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:22 AM
I don't know much about Keith's history with the Beachcombers, but I just wanted to add that he's my most inspiring drummer. I'll been obsessed with his style for as long as I remember.
— Science friction burns my fingers.
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:35 AM
image
ever notice how keith is ALWAYS the drummer-of-choice in the dead-rockstars-in-heaven band? sort of says something, don't you think?
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3780
tn
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:45 AM
tonybologna
I don't know much about Keith's history with the Beachcombers, but I just wanted to add that he's my most inspiring drummer. I'll been obsessed with his style for as long as I remember.
I'm with ya brutha. Have you read "Dear Boy"? According to Keith, we have this guy to thank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Little
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outsides
Joined: Jul 08, 2006
Posts: 460
NorCal
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:47 AM
Keith Moon is one of my rock and roll heroes. Some drummers come close, but they can't quite touch his energy. I recently re-read "Full Moon" by Dougal Butler - Keith's personal assistant/partner in crime/babysitter for some years. Reminds you how crazy Keith really was. You gotta love the guy.
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outsides
Joined: Jul 08, 2006
Posts: 460
NorCal
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:53 AM
Although I have to add that I was at the SF Cow Palace show the night he passed out at the drums. That was a bit disappointing. The guy they pulled out of the crowd did alright, I wonder who that was.
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tonybologna
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 796
Oakland
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:57 AM
spskins
I'm with ya brutha. Have you read "Dear Boy"? According to Keith, we have this guy to thank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Little
I haven't read that one. But I did read "Moon".
Wow Ted, I've never even heard of Carlo Little, thanks for the info.
Keith Moon, Charlie Watts, and Ginger Baker all in Wembley! Amazing!
— Science friction burns my fingers.
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2684
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 12:11 PM
I may anger some people in my opinion, but I vehemently don't consider Beach Boys-type vocals as "real deal" surf music. I think "California sound" better describes that vocal style.
I apologize for the off, off topic but Wooza, if you had been around in 1961 you might have a different perspective. Just as the Beach Boys did instrumentals, Dick Dale, the Pyramids, the Astronauts and others also did vocal numbers and I think you would agree that the Beach Boys vocals are infinitely more "surfy". I think it is pigeon-holeing surf music to restrict it to instrumentals. The Beach Boys and Jan and Dean both had a huge influence on the surf scene and got more airplay than the instros (except for Pipeline and Wipeout), at least in LA. Of course, the "real" surfers did not even listen to surf music, they were more into jazz. It was the movie Gidget (1959) that popularized surfing and of course there isn't even any surf music in that movie. Dick Dale, who we all consider the "real deal" would probably be all but forgotten if Pulp Fiction had never come out but the Beach Boys have always been an icon of Southern California beach culture.
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 12:39 PM
outsides
Although I have to add that I was at the SF Cow Palace show the night he passed out at the drums. That was a bit disappointing. The guy they pulled out of the crowd did alright, I wonder who that was?
veterinary horse tranquilizers...
from wikipedia
"...When Moon was finally incapacitated, Townsend asked the audience, 'Does anybody know how to play the drums?' An audience member, Scot Halpin, filled in for Moon for the rest of the show."
on youtube, about 7 minutes in...
Can anybody play the drums?...I mean, someone GOOD!
also from wikipedia:
"...He later spent 18 months as the drummer for the "The Beachcombers", a London cover band most notable for their renditions of songs by Cliff Richard." (maybe some Shadows tunes?)
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 12:44 PM
someday, I'm going to invent a drum machine with a "Keith Moon Quantitize" button.
this unique feature will analyze your sterile lame drum line and add magnificent tom rolls and flourishes, punctuated with fantastic cymbal splash and crash while adding syncopated hyperkinetic bass beats...all the while keeping that snare cracking out loud...
that will be so cool! 
Last edited: Feb 22, 2008 12:45:39
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