For vintages tones, will I want Lace Holy Grails for the 54 strat tone or will I want Fender classic 50's? I'm at a standstill here in my selection of my project strat. Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some "tone" on this matter for me. SFJ.

I don't know if Lace has moved on from their late 80s designs but they are pretty much at fault for some of the worst guitar tones of all-time.

Now... if Lace is producing nice "real" pickups then it might be worth considering.

The Fender "custom shop" series pickups are nice. No experience with their strat pickups though.

I suggest getting an outside builder to custom build pickups to your specs... or to whatever prebuilt ones they have. Fralin and Novak are the first two that come to mind.

JakeDobner
I don't know if Lace has moved on from their late 80s designs but they are pretty much at fault for some of the worst guitar tones of all-time.

Jake, I played a Strat with eighties Lace Sensors (my fiesta red Strat Plus) on most of the first Space Cossacks album. Do you think those are some of the worst guitar tones of all time? Granted, soon after I switched out the pickups and eventually switched to using US-made '62 reissues guitars, and would agree that the pickups I've used since are better than the Lace Sensors, and I don't much care for my sound on that first Cossacks CD, but I think you're still engaging in more than a bit of hyperbole. (Maybe people around here would be kinder to you and Josh - the 'young ones', as you recently complained - if you were a bit more measured in your statements - how much experience do you actually have with Lace Sensors, I wonder, that would allow you to make a categorical statement like the one above?)

I've noticed that Lace Sensors have evolved over the years and they might be much better today. But I haven't used them the newer ones.

I have Seymour Duncan Antiquity Surfer pickups in my main Strat - really good pickups, very expensive. I have Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro APS-2 pickups in another Strat - much cheaper, also sound really great. I have Fender original '57/'62 pickups in my '87 '62 reissue Strat, and those pickups sound great, too. I used Fender Texas Specials for a while, too, but ultimately decided I didn't like their sound as much as the sound of any of the above pickups. Didn't quite have enough sparkle on the high end, they seemed a bit too compressed or mid-heavy or something. But the difference was not great. I recorded half of Tsar Wars using those pickups.

That's my experience with pickups. Good luck!
Ivan

Ivan
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IvanP
Maybe people around here would be kinder to you and Josh - the 'young ones', as you recently complained - if you were a bit more measured in your statements

not to hijack this thread, but am i somehow un-measured with my statements? i just think the whole tone vs. sound thing was a misunderstanding with the terms...

IvanP
I have Seymour Duncan Antiquity Surfer pickups in my main Strat - really good pickups, very expensive. I have Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro APS-2 pickups in another Strat - much cheaper, also sound really great. I have Fender original '57/'62 pickups in my '87 '62 reissue Strat, and those pickups sound great, too. I used Fender Texas Specials for a while, too, but ultimately decided I didn't like their sound as much as the sound of any of the above pickups. Didn't quite have enough sparkle on the high end, they seemed a bit too compressed or mid-heavy or something. But the difference was not great. I recorded half of Tsar Wars using those pickups.

That's my experience with pickups. Good luck!
Ivan

with my input...i was going to get the SD surfers for my strat, but didn't have enough money at the time, so i went with the MUCH cheaper AVRI '57-'62 pups to replace Fender Texas Specials. the AVRI pickups sound great in my srat, and wouldn't dream of changing them, honestly. i have no experience with Lace but i must say that i have not heard very many good things about them...

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Brian

JoshHeartless
not to hijack this thread, but am i somehow un-measured with my statements? i just think the whole tone vs. sound thing was a misunderstanding with the terms...

You probably should have been prepared for some backlash when you claimed that DD's tone wasn't unique (????) and how you could "nail it easily". When pressed on that statement you retreat into a sound vs tone argument and refuse to offer proof that you can nail said tone "easily".

well to hijack the thread even further:

i love DD's tone to death, but to me it just isn't a whole lot different than a standard surf sound, that is all i meant. i don't think i need to prove that i can get the tone easily. to my ears i can get it damn near identical, and i don't need someone else's opinion on that. the only thing i think i'm really lacking is the power/overdrive-and i refuse to push my amp that hard anymore, i already a cap on the first channel by doing that...she's old and is probably due for a re-capping soon...i didn't retreat my statement, i just didn't find the point in humoring anyone with proof, you can either believe me or not, quite honestly i don't care.

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Like Ivan, my Strat Plus from the early 90's came with the Lace Sensor Golds in it. I was never really happy with the tone I got out of them, there always seemed to be something missing. They have since been replaced with Seymour Duncan Lipsticks, and I am much happier with my sound.

I realize only some of the tone comes from the pick ups, and that most comes from the player (as Ivan proved on the 1st Space Cossacks album), plus the amp.

Our first 2 CDs (Get Instro-MeNTAL! & Surf vs the Flying Saucers) feature the lace sensors, though many of the tunes on the second CD aren't played on the strat (dano, eko, tele). I did a lot more work on getting the lace sensors to sound better, but in the end I'm glad I switched them out.

I think you'll be happier with not choosing the lace sensors IMHO

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

JakeDobner
My familiarity with Lace Sensors is Clapton from the 80s. I like clapton but my god do I hate his 80s tone.

Jake, I think that Clapton's '80s tone was much more the result of the Bradshaw rig full of digital effects and Soldano amps he was using back then. I doubt that the Lace Sensors played that much of a role in that overall stew.

Knopfler used them in his Pensas which I didn't care much for. I think they use the blues. I don't think I own any albums Knopfler played the Pensas on, I've seen him play them live a lot.

I don't think it was Lace Sensors in those Pensa guitars (I remember he had at least two) - maybe EMGs. They didn't have visible polepieces, but that doesn't immediately make them Lace Sensors. I think the odds are much better they were EMGs.

Obviously I think The Space Cossacks tone is the Alpha and Omega for all guitar tones ever.

Why, thank you. And to RevHank, too. For what it's worth, I think my guitar sound has improved on each subsequent album I've done, but I can see how some would prefer the earlier stuff.

I wasn't making the young one's comment about myself, just Josh. Josh is very reserved and respectful.

Respectful, yes - but reserved? He's a strongly opinionated young man - though, is there any other kind? Josh has no reservations with telling us exactly what he thinks.

Me, I've been hopped up on steroids(medical) for months and I'm hyper and aggressive as a result, and I am quite the exaggerator and I liked, and still like to push my opinions into greater discussion.

You don't say. Shocking stuff. Well, at least you recognize when you're being a you-know-what. That's half the battle! We trust that in due time you'll win the other half. We're pulling for you!

Ivan

Ivan
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Oh! Not that you are ripping off DD or the Atlantics. I think I'm just more into the modern surf tones while Madeira is more like what Jim Messina would have made if he were more mature musically.

IvanP

JakeDobner
Knopfler used them in his Pensas which I didn't care much for. I think they use the blues. I don't think I own any albums Knopfler played the Pensas on, I've seen him play them live a lot.

I don't think it was Lace Sensors in those Pensa guitars (I remember he had at least two) - maybe EMGs. They didn't have visible polepieces, but that doesn't immediately make them Lace Sensors. I think the odds are much better they were EMGs.

Ivan is right, the Pensa-Suhrs did have EMGs and there were at least two, the flame maple one and the black one. Or so says my ultra-geeky two-volume set of Mark Knopfler tab books.

Has anyone here had the occasion to try out those alumitone pickups Lace is selling?

Swing! Twang! Shake! Twist!