What pan for outboard reverb?

joerg

Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 5
Germany

Posted on May 27 2006 04:02 PM

Hi all!

This is my first post on this forum. I have just finished building my outboard reverb unit, but I just have a cheap reverb pan and consider buying another one. So, what is the standard choice: the 2/4 spring pan or the 3/6 spring pan?
Any comments?

Thanks
JÃ¶rg

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WR

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
2 Link Pins

Posted on May 27 2006 05:26 PM

type 4 is preffered by most I guess, it's the standard for the 6G15 circuit and for most amps, it gives a sharper, more drippy effect. type 9 will give a more natural, more dark reverb style. beautiful if you use lots of reverb in other styles of music.

WR

—

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

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DougForbes

Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 62
La Crescenta CA.
United States

Posted on May 28 2006 09:10 AM

Hi JÃ¶rg,

The place to go to get all the answers is:

http://www.accutronicsreverb.comindex.htm

They are the ones who have made the pans for years.

Antique Electronics has the best price once you decide on whether you are going for the original (4AB3C1B) or shorter delay.

http://www.tubesandmore.com

I have built many duplicates of the Fender reverb and if I can answer any questions just let me know.

Doug Forbes
Longboard Ranch
Flowmasters
Planktones

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watchman

Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 9
Santa Cruz
United States

Posted on Jun 04 2006 04:07 PM

All Fender amps came with 2-spring accutronic tanks, and I believe the outboard reverb unit used these as well.

The 3-spring (9xxxx) tank works great in an outboard reverb unit - I am running one right now in a re-issue tank. Really wet and drippy.

I would not recommend the 3-spring tank for an amp, unless you add a dwell control. Otherwise, its becomes all reverb and the harmonic tones hang out long enough to interfere with each other..

... watchman

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joerg

Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 5
Germany

Posted on Jun 08 2006 03:20 AM

Thanks all!
I think I will go for the original 4 spring pan.
However, I`m still not sure my unit works 100% right, because I cannot go to real wet sounding reverb. Maybe this is just the pan I use now.
How critical are the voltages and reverb driver transformer in this circuit?
My B+ voltage is about 270V instead of 300V and my reverb transformer has an impedance of 10000. Are these values too bad?

JÃ¶rg

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WR

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
2 Link Pins

Posted on Jun 08 2006 08:03 AM

jorg, it's not necessarily in the b+, but in how the different voltages work together... check bias thru the bias calculator on the weber site - the original 6g15 schematic shows the 6K6 biased at 5watts, mine is at 7 watt, wont harm the bul until12 to 13 watt , might affect sound though.

I recently built a weber kit and got some help from "Jeff Gehring" appearantly 'the man' when it comes to reverbs on the weber forum. I 'll pm you our little corresopndence if I can find it - might be of some help to you.

it might well be the pan - is it one of the recent ones, 'chrome' ook instead of gold look? I have one of the chromes and it's very bad - i have a couple of older and they are better, not as good as the vintage ones I heard. eitherway, there's a pan-thread somewhere on the forum here, look it up and check it out.

I don't know enough about electronics to say anything about that impedance, but i just looked up that the one Weber uses in the reverb uit has 7k ohm on the primaries, so with 10k your're not really that far off. that's a rather uneducated opinion though.

first thing I'd do is find someone (friend? bandmember, neighbour, school-/work mate) who has a fender amp with reverb, if it's a 4ab3c1b, borrow it and connected it to you unit and see what it does.

where are you located btw, europe by any chance?

good luck

WR

—

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

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joerg

Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 5
Germany

Posted on Jun 08 2006 08:23 AM

The pan I use now is from some ancient home stereo reverb made by Grundig. If I recall correctly it was manufactured by Gibbs (or something like that), so I have no info about its specifications.
Since I don't know anybody in my area that has a Fender amp with reverb, I wil just buy a new pan (IÂ´ve planned this anyways) and hope it sounds good.

BTW IÂ´m from southern Germany (Augsburg).

JÃ¶rg

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joerg

Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 5
Germany

Posted on Jun 09 2006 05:00 AM

@WR: Thanks for your PM, didnÂ´t know how this PM thing works, but now I found it.

My 6k6 is biased at 7W also. I chaged the output transformer to some universal type and tried it at impedances of 10000, 8200 and 6800. I like 6800 most. But with my pan IÂ´m still not in surf territory. IÂ´ll wait for the new pan.

Thanks again everybody
JÃ¶rg

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WR

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
2 Link Pins

Posted on Jun 09 2006 06:37 AM

joerg,

have you checked the other thread? just came to me that the old tanks have type A, B or C typification (????) - it's a stamped letter on the inside of the tray, I think you need typoe 3 for tube driven reverb, check the web again though.

don't order a new one if you haven't already. second hand yet not vintage tanks go for about the same price as new ones and - in my experience - sound way better.

also consider that if you stay below a certain value (E22 in the netherlands) you don't pay customs or VAT on importing, so it's not that much more expensive to get it form the states. check with your customs office. ebay's a blessing, the US market is so much bigger and so much more stuff pops up.

just a thought,

WR

—

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

Top

D22

Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
1 Link Pin

Posted on Jun 14 2006 11:56 PM

If you want to hear what a 3-spring sounds like then listen to the samples here.
www.gomezamps.com/sounds

Mr. Moto and Pacifica will have the Jag on it. The Victor samples have the most heavy 'verb on them.

They were all recorded with an Accutronics 9AB3C1B.

—

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Boulder_Bob

Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 132
1 News Pin

Posted on Jun 15 2006 09:09 PM

I think the new Accutronics units sound pretty crappy - try buying an old Gibbs pan on eBay, I think they sound a lot better...

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joerg Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 5 Germany	Posted on May 27 2006 04:02 PM Hi all! This is my first post on this forum. I have just finished building my outboard reverb unit, but I just have a cheap reverb pan and consider buying another one. So, what is the standard choice: the 2/4 spring pan or the 3/6 spring pan? Any comments? Thanks JÃ¶rg Top
WR Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 3832 netherlands	Posted on May 27 2006 05:26 PM type 4 is preffered by most I guess, it's the standard for the 6G15 circuit and for most amps, it gives a sharper, more drippy effect. type 9 will give a more natural, more dark reverb style. beautiful if you use lots of reverb in other styles of music. WR — Rules to live by #314: "When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is." https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/ Top
DougForbes Joined: Mar 07, 2006 Posts: 62 La Crescenta CA.	Posted on May 28 2006 09:10 AM Hi JÃ¶rg, The place to go to get all the answers is: http://www.accutronicsreverb.comindex.htm They are the ones who have made the pans for years. Antique Electronics has the best price once you decide on whether you are going for the original (4AB3C1B) or shorter delay. http://www.tubesandmore.com I have built many duplicates of the Fender reverb and if I can answer any questions just let me know. Doug Forbes Longboard Ranch Flowmasters Planktones Top
watchman Joined: Jun 04, 2006 Posts: 9 Santa Cruz	Posted on Jun 04 2006 04:07 PM All Fender amps came with 2-spring accutronic tanks, and I believe the outboard reverb unit used these as well. The 3-spring (9xxxx) tank works great in an outboard reverb unit - I am running one right now in a re-issue tank. Really wet and drippy. I would not recommend the 3-spring tank for an amp, unless you add a dwell control. Otherwise, its becomes all reverb and the harmonic tones hang out long enough to interfere with each other.. ... watchman Top
joerg Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 5 Germany	Posted on Jun 08 2006 03:20 AM Thanks all! I think I will go for the original 4 spring pan. However, I`m still not sure my unit works 100% right, because I cannot go to real wet sounding reverb. Maybe this is just the pan I use now. How critical are the voltages and reverb driver transformer in this circuit? My B+ voltage is about 270V instead of 300V and my reverb transformer has an impedance of 10000. Are these values too bad? JÃ¶rg Top
WR Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 3832 netherlands	Posted on Jun 08 2006 08:03 AM jorg, it's not necessarily in the b+, but in how the different voltages work together... check bias thru the bias calculator on the weber site - the original 6g15 schematic shows the 6K6 biased at 5watts, mine is at 7 watt, wont harm the bul until12 to 13 watt , might affect sound though. I recently built a weber kit and got some help from "Jeff Gehring" appearantly 'the man' when it comes to reverbs on the weber forum. I 'll pm you our little corresopndence if I can find it - might be of some help to you. it might well be the pan - is it one of the recent ones, 'chrome' ook instead of gold look? I have one of the chromes and it's very bad - i have a couple of older and they are better, not as good as the vintage ones I heard. eitherway, there's a pan-thread somewhere on the forum here, look it up and check it out. I don't know enough about electronics to say anything about that impedance, but i just looked up that the one Weber uses in the reverb uit has 7k ohm on the primaries, so with 10k your're not really that far off. that's a rather uneducated opinion though. first thing I'd do is find someone (friend? bandmember, neighbour, school-/work mate) who has a fender amp with reverb, if it's a 4ab3c1b, borrow it and connected it to you unit and see what it does. where are you located btw, europe by any chance? good luck WR — Rules to live by #314: "When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is." https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/ Top
joerg Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 5 Germany	Posted on Jun 08 2006 08:23 AM The pan I use now is from some ancient home stereo reverb made by Grundig. If I recall correctly it was manufactured by Gibbs (or something like that), so I have no info about its specifications. Since I don't know anybody in my area that has a Fender amp with reverb, I wil just buy a new pan (IÂ´ve planned this anyways) and hope it sounds good. BTW IÂ´m from southern Germany (Augsburg). JÃ¶rg Top
joerg Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 5 Germany	Posted on Jun 09 2006 05:00 AM @WR: Thanks for your PM, didnÂ´t know how this PM thing works, but now I found it. My 6k6 is biased at 7W also. I chaged the output transformer to some universal type and tried it at impedances of 10000, 8200 and 6800. I like 6800 most. But with my pan IÂ´m still not in surf territory. IÂ´ll wait for the new pan. Thanks again everybody JÃ¶rg Top
WR Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 3832 netherlands	Posted on Jun 09 2006 06:37 AM joerg, have you checked the other thread? just came to me that the old tanks have type A, B or C typification (????) - it's a stamped letter on the inside of the tray, I think you need typoe 3 for tube driven reverb, check the web again though. don't order a new one if you haven't already. second hand yet not vintage tanks go for about the same price as new ones and - in my experience - sound way better. also consider that if you stay below a certain value (E22 in the netherlands) you don't pay customs or VAT on importing, so it's not that much more expensive to get it form the states. check with your customs office. ebay's a blessing, the US market is so much bigger and so much more stuff pops up. just a thought, WR — Rules to live by #314: "When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is." https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/ Top
D22 Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Posts: 2054	Posted on Jun 14 2006 11:56 PM If you want to hear what a 3-spring sounds like then listen to the samples here. www.gomezamps.com/sounds Mr. Moto and Pacifica will have the Jag on it. The Victor samples have the most heavy 'verb on them. They were all recorded with an Accutronics 9AB3C1B. — Top
Boulder_Bob Joined: Mar 29, 2006 Posts: 132	Posted on Jun 15 2006 09:09 PM I think the new Accutronics units sound pretty crappy - try buying an old Gibbs pan on eBay, I think they sound a lot better... Top

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What pan for outboard reverb?