Wow Zak! Cool pic w/Hubert.

Ryan
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"What's a Strat? Buy a Jag/JM." That's really cute.

Just to be sure, the Strat is THEE guitar for surf music, the one that played the major role with pretty much all the important artists and classic hits. Here's the list of sixties surf guitarists that played Strats:

Dick Dale
Eddie Bertrand (during the Belairs era and the later part of Eddie & the Showmen)
Paul Johnson (rhythm guitar, the Belairs)
Bob Spickard & Brian Carmen (lead & rhtyhm, the Chantays)
Jim Fuller (lead guitar, the Surfaris)
Skip Mercier & Willy Glover (lead & rhythm, the Pyramids)
Jim Messina (lead guitar, the Jesters)
Al Nichol (lead guitar, the Crossfires)
Bobby Fuller (lead guitar, the Bobby Fuller Four)
Larry Weed (lead guitar, the Original Surfaris - though he's also seen with a JM)
Jim Skiathitis & Theo Penglis (both lead guitar, the Atlantics)

Let's see the Jag/JM enthusiasts put together a list that contains even half as many significant and genre-defining sixties guitarists and groups that used the offsets. Yes, it's a challenge.

It's just funny to me how we're seeing this revisionism today just because a Strat ended up being used for many non-surf genres and is associated with other guitarists today. You can't change history, folks. The Strat is IT when it comes to surf. (BTW, I'm NOT saying everybody should use a Strat - use whatever you want, I really don't care. Just want to make sure that the Strat gets the respect it deserves.)

To answer the pickup question: I think most sixties surf guitarists used either the neck or middle pickup. I don't hear the bridge pickup being used much. DD was almost always parked on the neck pickup, and occasionally he'd use the neck/middle 'in-between' setting. On a 3-way switch you can get that setting by carefully lodging it between the two settings. Depending on how the switch is, it might be pretty easy to lodge it in there, or not. I'm sure he didn't use a match, as that would prevent him from using the neck pickup. Two out of my three Strats have 3-way switches, and on one it's very easy to get the inbetween settings, on the other not so much, but it can still be done. I can't do it 'on-the'-fly' on either guitar - it takes a few seconds of careful manipulation to get it in there.

I used mostly the bridge pickup in the Space Cossacks (mostly due to the Shadows influence, though through the years I've come to realize that Hank switched pickups quite a bit, sometimes in the same song). In the Madeira, I moved mostly to the middle pickup, with some neck and bridge. More recently the neck pickup has been winning, both for mellower and aggressive songs. It's a fat sound, and Fender amps usually have plenty of treble even with the neck pickup. But I still use the middle pickup a fair amount. I find myself not using the bridge pickup very much at all anymore.

Hope that helps! Good luck with your Strat, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Strats rule!!!

Ivan

Ivan
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IvanP
"What's a Strat? Buy a Jag/JM." That's really cute.

Just to be sure, the Strat is THEE guitar for surf music, the one that played the major role with pretty much all the important artists and classic hits. Here's the list of sixties surf guitarists that played Strats:

Dick Dale
Eddie Bertrand (during the Belairs era and the later part of Eddie & the Showmen)
Paul Johnson (rhythm guitar, the Belairs)
Bob Spickard & Brian Carmen (lead & rhtyhm, the Chantays)
Jim Fuller (lead guitar, the Surfaris)
Skip Mercier & Willy Glover (lead & rhythm, the Pyramids)
Jim Messina (lead guitar, the Jesters)
Al Nichol (lead guitar, the Crossfires)
Bobby Fuller (lead guitar, the Bobby Fuller Four)
Larry Weed (lead guitar, the Original Surfaris - though he's also seen with a JM)
Jim Skiathitis & Theo Penglis (both lead guitar, the Atlantics)

Let's see the Jag/JM enthusiasts put together a list that contains even half as many significant and genre-defining sixties guitarists and groups that used the offsets. Yes, it's a challenge.

It's just funny to me how we're seeing this revisionism today just because a Strat ended up being used for many non-surf genres and is associated with other guitarists today. You can't change history, folks. The Strat is IT when it comes to surf. (BTW, I'm NOT saying everybody should use a Strat - use whatever you want, I really don't care. Just want to make sure that the Strat gets the respect it deserves.)

To answer the pickup question: I think most sixties surf guitarists used either the neck or middle pickup. I don't hear the bridge pickup being used much. DD was almost always parked on the neck pickup, and occasionally he'd use the neck/middle 'in-between' setting. On a 3-way switch you can get that setting by carefully lodging it between the two settings. Depending on how the switch is, it might be pretty easy to lodge it in there, or not. I'm sure he didn't use a match, as that would prevent him from using the neck pickup. Two out of my three Strats have 3-way switches, and on one it's very easy to get the inbetween settings, on the other not so much, but it can still be done. I can't do it 'on-the'-fly' on either guitar - it takes a few seconds of careful manipulation to get it in there.

I used mostly the bridge pickup in the Space Cossacks (mostly due to the Shadows influence, though through the years I've come to realize that Hank switched pickups quite a bit, sometimes in the same song). In the Madeira, I moved mostly to the middle pickup, with some neck and bridge. More recently the neck pickup has been winning, both for mellower and aggressive songs. It's a fat sound, and Fender amps usually have plenty of treble even with the neck pickup. But I still use the middle pickup a fair amount. I find myself not using the bridge pickup very much at all anymore.

Hope that helps! Good luck with your Strat, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Strats rule!!!

Ivan

Randy Holden - Jaguar
Eddie Bertrand - Jaguar
Tony Andresen - Jaguar

That's the holy trinity right there Ivan. A glance through Dalley's book and you see just as many Jaguars as Strats.

But seriously, the best way to mod a Strat? Trade it in for a Telecaster.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

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Randy Holden (Fender IV) - Jaguar
Michael Lloyd (New Dimensions) - Jaguar
Jim Masoner (Lively Ones) - Jaguar
Rich Fifield (Astronauts) - Jazzmaster
Tony Andreason (Trashmen) - Jaguar
Dave Myers (Surftones) - Jaguar (sometimes)
Eddie Bertrand - Jaguar (sometimes)
Larry Weed (Original Surfaris) - Jazzmaster (sometimes)
whatever the guy in the Avengers VI was called - Jaguar

Add:
David Marks
Allesandro (Good Bad & Ugly was a Jazzmaster)
Carl Wilson
The Trashmen
The Ventures
Johnny Fortune

No doubt more people use Strats in general, which is precisely why I bought a Jaguar in back in 1988 when I didn't even know there were any surf bands on the planet. EVERYBODY played Strats, talk about conformity. Jaguars certainly seen to be a favorite among current surf bands . I haven't had a Strat since 1974 and that one could get front and back pickups or all 3 at once due to 2 mini toggle switches.

BillAqua
Randy Holden - Jaguar
Eddie Bertrand - Jaguar
Tony Andresen - Jaguar
That's the holy trinity right there Ivan. A glance through Dalley's book and you see just as many Jaguars as Strats.

zak
Just off the top of my head...

Randy Holden (Fender IV) - Jaguar
Michael Lloyd (New Dimensions) - Jaguar
Jim Masoner (Lively Ones) - Jaguar
Rich Fifield (Astronauts) - Jazzmaster
Tony Andreason (Trashmen) - Jaguar
Dave Myers (Surftones) - Jaguar (sometimes)
Eddie Bertrand - Jaguar (sometimes)
Larry Weed (Original Surfaris) - Jazzmaster (sometimes)
whatever the guy in the Avengers VI was called - Jaguar

Ah, I was waiting for Bill and Zak to pipe up with the above list! - but really, c'mon. You're seriously comparing the IMPACT and influence of the New Dimensions or the Trashmen to DD, the Belairs, the Chantays, the Pyramids???? No way. You guys PERSONALLY may have been very influenced by those tones (Bill, I doubt that's the holy trinity for most surf guitarists, certainly not Tony Andresen - over DD, Messina, Nichol or Fuller??), but it's rewriting history to say that sixties surf music was defined more by the acts you guys bring up than the ones I listed. No way. (How many instrumentals did the Trashmen release in the sixties - half a dozen? The Fender IV - three? Dave Myers had only at most half a dozen surf instrumentals, and only one with a really good tone - Gear. The Avengers VI??? They mostly missed the peak of surf music. C'mon...)

Anyway, I really don't mean to put down the Jag and the JM, and don't want this to turn into some sort of a competition between the Strat and the offsets. They're great guitars, I love my JM. And they get a great surf sound. I'm just objecting to so many people ripping on Strats and not giving them their due as the most defining guitar of sixties surf music. I'm sorry some people can't sound very good on a Strat - but I'd say the fault lies with the player, NOT the guitar!

zak

IvanP
DD was almost always parked on the neck pickup, and occasionally he'd use the neck/middle 'in-between' setting.

Ivan, are you sure about that?
In almost every photo I've seen of Dick Dale, both old and recent, his pickup switch seems to be in the "bridge" position? Or is his switch wired "backwards" so that the "back" position activates the neck pickup?

Hmm, yeah, good photos. Most of the photos in McParland's book on DD, especially the early ones, show the switch in the neck position, but he obviously mixed it up. I'm just judging based on the sound of the recordings that it was mostly neck, but obviously I'm just speculating.

Ivan

Ivan
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IvanP
but I'd say the fault lies with the player, NOT the guitar!

That's it in a nutshell. Its the hands of the player that makes the tone. The strat is a phenomenal guitar, especially in the right hands. The offsets get a fantastic surf tone as well. I personally favor a JM these days. We could list a ton of more modern players that play each type as well. In the end, both get very different, but equally great surf tone.

Ryan
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Last edited: Jan 11, 2009 23:11:35

Bless Ivan for his heroic defense of the Fender Stratocaster. Can I get an amen?
I'm a big fan of strats myself. I find that a lot of my most favorite bands (current and old) play strats. I guess that's just the sound my ear tends to favor. My one guitar is a strat, which is all stock except for fatter strings (.13's). When I play lead I pretty much exclusively have it set to the neck position, which sound nice and beefy. Rhythm switches between the middle and bridge pickups. I really can't go for either of the "in-betweens," they just sound goofy when I play them. Like Ivan said: fault of the player.

IvanP
[ (How many instrumentals did the Trashmen release in the sixties - half a dozen? The Fender IV - three? Dave Myers had only at most half a dozen surf instrumentals, and only one with a really good tone - Gear. The Avengers VI??? They mostly missed the peak of surf music. C'mon...)

What about the Astronauts?? The Astronaut putt putt chunk rhythm would not be the same if it was played on Stratocaster.

Haha! we could take this to even further depths of disagreement.

Why does a surf song have to be an instrumental?
Aside from Dick Dale, Tony Andresen has to be the most well known "surf" guitarist of the 60s, or atleast his group is to the common surf-no-nothing walking the streets.

If you consider Tony's impact that way we can't leave off Carl Wilson who played in the most influencial "surf" band of all time who's main axe during those days was not a Stratocaster, but the Jaguar.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

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IvanP
I'm just judging based on the sound of the recordings that it was mostly neck, but obviously I'm just speculating.

Ivan

it is my personal speculation that since dick dale's tone is so thick anyways, that it is often thought that he uses the neck. i say it sounds like the bridge pup to me...

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Here's one on this forum http://www.surfguitar101.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1536&highlight=

But I've taken down the sound clips for it.

Last edited: May 20, 2010 14:12:26