Oh wow. I have Stranger From Durango but clearly haven't listened to it very closely.

That said, how much earlier is Stranger from Durango? Discogs lists it as 1963, same as Rising Surf, though the 45 of the song is 1960. If they're both 1963 then I'm guessing the label was just hedging their bets and selling the same record to two markets.

Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio

Not that it really matters how Richie Allen's music is categorized. Around here, it's strictly personal. But you're over-thinking this. Just listen to the music and decide. E.g., are you gonna tell me that this (which is, btw, a VENTURES song) is surf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXfQYRjjxvc

and these aren't?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu14hjWZMy8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHORFA95vos

Most of the other stuff you mentioned sounds more like Link Wray to me, which although I view as sort of proto-surf, I wouldn't exactly call surf music. But I play Link and other related music in my surf/punk/trash/twang band and most people wouldn't know or care about the musicological distinction.

Anyway - I don't think it matters a tinker's damn one way or the other. I hear current stuff that doesn't exactly fit into my idea of surf, but is embraced by the surf music community. No problem as far as I'm concerned.

As far as the relationship between (especially California) country music and surf and other instrumental guitar music - um, yes, there is a relationship. Twangy (mostly Fender) guitars. Here's that ever-present surf/instrumental-rock guitar guy, um, I mean country guitar and steel guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSOXZNY8hAA

Hell, if one wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to make this old Bakersfield Red Simpson/Dennis Payne tune into a surf song by changing the beat around and cutting the vocals. There's even enough reverb on the guitar - if you've ever seen Junior, you know he runs a '68 Twin Reverb with 2xJBL-FD120F. California country, hard twangin' guitars (and steel in this case).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR9ViPdGEaU

The Delverados - surf, punk, trash, twang - Facebook
Chicken Tractor Deluxe - hardcore Americana - Facebook and Website
The Telegrassers - semi-electric bluegrass/Americana - Facebook

My definition of surf is very broad, so for me...YES!...Richie Allena & the Pacific Surfers absolutely count as a surf band, whether they were an actual band or not. What this group of guys did was epic, and as essential as just about anything that I've heard from the first wave. I would add that, although it was issued as a Sandy Nelson release, I consider "Casbah" a Richie Allen song, and it will always be among my top 5 surf songs.

Bob

Last edited: Aug 01, 2024 03:55:45

The lively ones drummer Tim was talking about their record label reusing songs on other albums.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Listen to examples on Surf Route 101 YouTube channel; I can’t think of a better way to categorize it than calling it Surf.

RobbieReverb wrote:

My definition of surf is very broad, so for me...YES!...Richie Allena & the Pacific Surfers absolutely count as a surf band, whether they were an actual band or not. What this group of guys did was epic, and as essential as just about anything that I've heard from the first wave. I would add that, although it was issued as a Sandy Nelson release, I consider "Casbah" a Richie Allen song, and it will always be among my top 5 surf songs.

Likewise, my definition of Surf is fairly broad. I think it means something different to someone living in SoCal than to someone inland, who enjoyed rock guitar instrumental. But didn’t really associate it with actual surfers.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

John wrote:

The "Stranger From Durango" track, followed by the retitled track from "Surfer's Slide," released 8/63 (the latter was not just a reissue of the former):

"Redskin"/"Ridin' The Woodie"
"Not So Quiet"/"Surfer's Slide"
"Cave Man"/"Surf Man"
"Room 304"/"Malibu Run"
"Lonely Guitar"/"Lonely Surfer"

While the 4th edition of "The Illustrated Discography of Surf Music, 1961-1965" has sold out, I'm expecting to publish a new, VERY expanded, edition early next year. I've spent years trying to make this book the "go to" resource for questions like the one posed in this thread.

BTW, the vocal on "Skeg-Along-Pete" was by Richie Podolor.

The use of retitled, earlier recordings happened quite a bit, actually. Gary Usher and Mike Curb were two producers who did this a lot, especially with hot-rod related tracks

John! I love your book! Discovered it when I was 14 (15 years ago) and your definitions / parameters for classifying surf music is what I’ve adopted for my collection. In fact it’s the first place I went with this and was surprised to see there was no information about Stranger from Durango (in my edition)

Yes, Gary Usher and Mike Curb did repurpose a lot of hot rod tracks - thought I’d suggest those were already written intentionally in the surf style and did not predate the craze like the Allen tracks. As you note in your excellent definition there obviously is room for subjectivity with a lot of this.

I guess I’m approaching this in the context of your notes under the Wedges’ Surfing with the Wedges, the premonition that in order to be included a release must contain tracks with titles that are surf-adjacent (or firmly in the style as in a few Ventures recordings listed from mid-1963), and the knowledge of the existence of many cash grab Diplomat releases which only warranted a listing for the surf titles. Granted in some cases, some of those tracks could be considered marginally surfy - though that was not the original context in which they were recorded. In the case of the Pacific Surfers releases, yeah it’s still played very much in the surf style which had been floating around circa 1961 so for me it’s not much of a stretch for my ears to adopt it as surf music.

I greatly forward to the expanded version and get your thoughts on all this.

My Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/surf_album_covers/
Surf Route 101 (My Album Review Website): https://surfroute101.wixsite.com/surfroute101

Last edited: Aug 02, 2024 06:13:08

shake_n_stomp wrote:

Definitions and classifications of what is "surf"? And when artists or record labels simply slap a pre-fab surf/beach title to an instrumental tune as a marketing cash-in, does it make it a surf tune? And if studio pros are the ones recording the tunes vs. 16 and 17 yr olds in a garage "studio", does that make it genuine surf? It is all grey for me. I respect the experience and expertise of others here that I would not make a bold declaration one way or another. I just love guitar instrumental music! To me, it is all Surf or Surf-adjacent...
BTW, I love The Quiet Surf and Casbah and have enjoyed performing them. They might not be soaking wet with reverb but it doesn't cause me any problems to play them along side something like DD, Eddie and The Showmen, The Lively Ones, and The Original Surfaris. I just add reverb when performing a tune that did not have it in the recording...et voila! Surf!

In the Jazz world, especially in the ‘60s and ‘70s, there were endless discussions of what was, and what was not, “Jazz”. There were musicians from the Big Band era, and their definition of Jazz differed from the postwar Bebop musicians whom favored the smaller ensembles made possible because of amplification. In the ‘70s, there was an emerging “Jazz Rock”, which may have included distorted guitars from the Rock world, and that was far from universally welcomed in the Jazz world.

So you’d see interviews where some established jazz artist would be asked about a newer recording and would state “that’s not Jazz”, happening to the point of tedium. I would agree, some Jazz Rock was much more Rock than Jazz, but there were many hairs split along the way, and no definition was ever cast in stone.

Reverb was a divisive issue for some Surf bands. IIRC, the Bel-Airs split up over the question of reverb. Personally, I love reverb, but feel that it can be overdone.

Drawing boundaries is always going to displease somebody. The old saying “I don’t know much about art, but I know what I like” could be equally applied to defining Surf. I know what I heard when I was just a kid, and I know that I like that style. I like Duane Eddy, The Shadows, the SoCal Surf bands of the early ‘60s, The Ventures, and I like the twangy guitar that Don Rick played in Buck Owens band. Not all of these meet the definition of Surf, but they are all clean guitars, and usually have prominent reverb, or some sort of echo. I like that sound when it was heard in movies, such as Charade, some of the Spaghetti Western, or spy movies.

Surf, in the strict sense, helped to lead the way, building upon what Duane Eddy started, but Surf is part of a much bigger picture.

Surfalbumcovers wrote:

Surf Route 101 is actually my channel! lol it’s my own copy on there

I suspected as much. Nice work.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.