As I understand, Al Schmitt had just taken on the new role of producer after the Grammy-winning success of "Hatari!" and The Astronauts were a part of that relatively short-lived career move.

According to Schmitt's book "On The Record: The Magic Behind The Music", he brought over Jim Malloy from Radio Recorders to be the staff engineer at RCA to take his place. Schmitt was technically not "allowed" to touch the mixer from '62-'66. Unfortunately, Schmitt does not seem to mention the Astronauts even once in his whole book.
He returned to his great passion, sound engineer, after that period.

So, it is conceivable that such an accomplished engineer in his own right could have directed the RCA staff engineer to use mic techniques, chamber/plate reverb (slap echo?), running the limiter rather crunchy, etc. to accentuate certain sonic elements as they were hitting the tape.
A sampling of sources on the 'net credits Schmitt as being the engineer for The Astronauts but the timeline seems to prove that by the time Baja was recorded, he was already the producer.

Maybe the truth lays somewhere in the middle...he shared his experience and expertise with the staff engineer without touching a single fader or U87.

Here is Schmitt with the boys at RCA: https://www.instagram.com/schmitt.al/p/CK5J4DgBg4f/

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

Last edited: Dec 18, 2023 01:20:23

Don’t underestimate the importance of the Gibbs pan found in 1960s Fenders when chasing the vintage surf sound.

My ’63 Reverb reissue came with a stock USA Accutronics pan, and I’ve also tried it with a Korean Accutronics. The ’63 Reverb didn't fully nail the sound of the sixties until I installed a 1969 Gibbs pan pulled from an organ.

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Last edited: Dec 21, 2023 15:01:58

da-ron wrote:

I'm a bit late to the party on this one, but wouldn't all recordings from this era rely on studio effects. The reverb tank would have been used live but there were a few studio tricks used to liven up the sound.

Chasing an old tone captured/produced by a studio using modern equipment is always a challenge. Let alone trying to reproduce it live. Back then, a live sound and a recorded sound could be very different, unlike modern demands

Just a guess, but I suspect that they were using 6G15s, which were all but ubiquitous, but I suspect that there was some studio reverb added, possibly for the entire track. When I’ve experimented with reverb tanks, pedals, etc. I’ve found that even a light “wash” of plate reverb after spring reverb can really enhance the drip. I’ve also tried putting a subtle analog delay ahead of the reverb, and this can trigger some over-the-top drip.

The challenge with analyzing any recording is that we may not have any way of knowing what has happened to the tracks, post production. Even a live recording will have been mixed and mastered before it was ever committed to vinyl, which means that you could hear studio reverb on a live recording. I would suspect that this would be a very common practice with live recordings in outdoor venues, because there is no natural echo from the four walls of the room.

The producer and engineer are both motivated to present a recording that will appeal to record buyers, and sell well. Producers have a piece of the action, and the reputation of an engineer is earned by their skill in making tracks sound good. At the end of the day, it comes down to creating a product which sounds good, will attract airplay, and ultimately will sell.

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ELZEB wrote:

Pan locked, knobs almost wide open. That's what Rich Fifield told me (we exchanged a couple emails in the late 90s). When Leo let them use the prototype unit, they didn't realize they had to unlock the pan at first, that's how they discovered that sound.

Whoa! That caused a flashbulb memory of that time when I didn't realize those three yellow foam pieces were laying against the springs, and the drips were insane. But very little actual reverb. Hmmmm. I'm gonna have to experiment now. It's too bad those 6G15s steal so much tone. I wonder if using two 6G15s, the first with the pan locked against foam and the second a 6/6/6...

Daniel Deathtide

shake_n_stomp wrote:

I just pulled out my reissue unit and just spent a few minutes experimenting with the bracket locked and trying with various maxed-out settings on the knobs. No joy. Nothing that matches to what I hear on the records. I am not making an argument at all...just saying that my Jazzmaster>>Fender Reverb Unit>>amp with the pan locked did not achieve the results that matched. I would be interested to hear others' findings.

I suspected this will be the case. However, I'm curious to see you try it with some in-between positions, so the foam just grazes the springs.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

Emilien03 wrote:

So ... everyone can sound like The Beatles, but no one can sound like The Astronauts ... it is a puzzle indeed and more questions than answers pop out ... was the band looking for that sound? ... was the producer looking for that sound? ... what was the reference for the overall sound of the record?

one word…. MAGIC!

Emilien03 wrote:

So ... everyone can sound like The Beatles, but no one can sound like The Astronauts ... it is a puzzle indeed and more questions than answers pop out ... was the band looking for that sound? ... was the producer looking for that sound? ... what was the reference for the overall sound of the record?

Who succeeded in sounding like The Beatles?!?!

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You could get rhe beatles sound... but who cares.
We're talking astronauts here..
Please do your homework and go to el zeb's posts who did commented in the past.
He did get in touch with Rich Fifield privately about it.
Forgive my unintented rudeness.
Cheers, Andy

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ArabSpringReverb wrote:

I wonder if there are IRs available for RCA or GoldStar studio reverb chambers ..Abbey Road offers some ...might be a good way to get that 'sparkle' from an Al Schmitt session in a computer recording

I just started using the Waves Abbey Rd Chambers plugin. I have also looked into the Hitsville and Capital Studios chambers and the Sound City Studio room re-mic'ing plugins. To get the IRs, those chambers still needed to exist when the technology was available to capture the IRs. I believe Gold Star shut its doors in '84 and the land was redeveloped following a fire.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

spskins wrote:

Emilien03 wrote:

So ... everyone can sound like The Beatles, but no one can sound like The Astronauts ... it is a puzzle indeed and more questions than answers pop out ... was the band looking for that sound? ... was the producer looking for that sound? ... what was the reference for the overall sound of the record?

Who succeeded in sounding like The Beatles?!?!

I'm sure there are many tribute bands around the world that cash in playing and even looking like them ... if they get paid I guess they succeeded ... not the case with The Astronauts.

When you have to shoot ... shoot! Don't talk.
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