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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 09:12:04

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 09:12:18

Adding a presence knob won't turn your amp to a brown panel. Like Tqi said, the transformers are different and there are many other differences. Also, if you don't have a brown panel amp to compare to, you wouldn't even know if what you spent your money on got you close or not. A lot of the difference is manifested when playing live in a band context.

Ran

The Scimitars

Last edited: Sep 20, 2023 17:22:11

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 09:12:33

First off, if there was a Blossom Point Fan Club, I would be the president. I have a Winfield Elizabeth, which is basically a derivative of the AB 763 circuit, and if I put a Blossom Point in front of it, the character become much more like a 6G14. I don’t care what guitar, which amp or which reverb, every note I play goes through a Blossom Point.

Another possibility is to change the value of the midrange cap from .047 mFd to .022 mFd. This is referred to as the “Bassman tone stack” and is used for the modified channel of the ‘68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, and its siblings. This tone stack results in a less scooped sound than one would expect from a mid ‘60s Fender. This is also the tone stack one would find on the Normal channel of a Super Reverb. While this sound is not perfectly that of an early ‘60s Fender, it is a good sound, and probably closer than you’d get from a stock Deluxe Reverb, etc.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Looking into just getting a 6G14 clone built now, but trying to see if I can also get an AB763 added to it so I can have two amps in one.

ners wrote:

Looking into just getting a 6G14 clone built now, but trying to see if I can also get an AB763 added to it so I can have two amps in one.

I’ll somewhat echo TQI’s comments, and add an experience from when I first joined SurfGuitar101. At that time, I didn’t realize that there was a massive gulf between a Blackface Twin and a Brownface Showman, and asked a question which was based on my mistaken assumption. I was fortunate, in that the reply I got was from someone knowledgeable, who posted a link to a YouTube video of Freddie King playing through a Showman, so I could hear the entirely different nature of an early Showman’s sound.

Those early Showman amps were beasts, with an interesting grit that a ‘65 Twin wasn’t going to produce. The tone stack is completely different, but the power section is, as well. Beyond that, the Tremolo circuit in the Showman is completely different from that of the Blackface series. It would be possible to build a two channel amp with a Brownface tone stack on one channel and a Blackface tone stack on the other, but that seems like a lot of bother for something that might not get you exactly what you are looking for.

The Quilter solution might be just what the doctor ordered. More than a few serious players use one. There are also other directions you can go. Much of the time, I use a 5 watt amp, based upon an early Vox AC 15 front end, with an EF86 pentode as the first tube. I’ve played Surf in outdoor venues, with this amp, having the PA system doing the heavy lifting. A trip to the front of the stage during a show let me hear the result and it sounded as massive as a Showman, and this is an amp I can carry with one hand.

Another thing to try would be the ‘68 Custom series amps from Fender. I have. ‘68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, which is awesome. It has a Modified channel which has a different capacitor in the midrange section of the tone stack, which makes the tone stack similar to a blonde Bassman from the mid ‘60s. The downside to these amps is that the negative feedback resistor is of a higher value, somewhat reducing the headroom of the amp, but that can be easily changed by adding a second negative feedback resistor of the same value, in parallel. With this mod in place, this makes for a dandy little Surf amp, and if you want something larger,mthe series goes up to the level of a Twin.

There is also the Winfield Dust Devil, which is a two channel amp with a Vox channel and a Fender channel, which you can switch between, using an A/B/Y switch. It’s a small amp, at only 15 watts, but it can create some great sounds.

No matter what, there is always a degree of compromise. If I had a huge music room, such as you see in a Rick Beato YouTube video, I’d be tempted to own a lot of amps, because amps app have their own character. The problem is, when I’m playing a gig, in the real world, I want to grab and go. I don’t have a road crew, and I don’t have a van in which to haul equipment, so I want a simple solution. I use a small pedalboard with good Spring Reverb and Tremolo pedals, plugged into a small amp. If I need more amplification, I have a 1600 watt PA head and a couple of compact, but power-capable speakers, but most gigs provide a PA, so I rarely use it. For my purposes, that’s plenty.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I think your plan is doable, since you aren't worried about being 100% accurate in terms of replicating either sound(which of course is not really possible with a hand built amp because of all the little things that go into making an amp's sound and not every original amp of the same model sounded exactly the same). With AB763 amps, you can easily mod the circuit to change the nature of the mid scoop (and allow for a lot more mids) and change the level of negative feedback.

So to go with your plan - a two channel amp with different tone stacks, you can choose which power section you want to start with and then have a 6G14 preamp section and AB763 preamp section - then one of those would have a more accurate sound, and I'm sure the other would sound great as well (I know there are differences in phase inverter and power amp circuits, but not sure if their influence on the sound is nearly as much as the preamp section). If you don't need tremolo or reverb for either section, it would make the circuit more simple.

To really delve into the technicalities and how close you can get what you want, I suggest posting in the forum at EL34world.com - those guys are frequently doing all sorts of Frankenstein amp creations and can tell you what is possible and what things make the most difference (and why).

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 09:08:54

Hi @ners! The whole setup sounds like nice-to-have, but do you really need two amps in one? I personally settle with one amp setting about 95% of the time, as also many players I know (at least at live situations). If this is the case, I would suggest to just order a custom made 6G14/6G14A build for you, it will get you cheaper without the tremolo if you don't need it, and I believe that it won't cost much higher than your initial plan of buying a blackface showman and mod it (which is theoretically possible but, to my opinion, practically too much hussle to worth it).

I want also to highlight that the brownface showman won't give you an "instant Dick Dale tone" by itself, in case it is not clear to you already. It will give you a brownier/spicier sound, which means more mids, less treble and earlier break up. You should also work your technique towards that tone, which may get you closer to the tone you want even unplugged. It actually feels BADASS to play through a cranked-up showman, but this itself won't give you THAT tone.

In any case let us know how will the plan proceed. Also for the record I am the guy that built that single-channel showman that tqi mentioned.