It’s all over the map, these days. I haven’t played for money in a long time, and that’s by choice. I prefer benefits, community events, etc. where they are grateful to have a band to draw people in. It’s a very far cry from the days when you played gigs at union scale, or above.

Ultimately, it always comes down to supply and demand, and the supply is huge. Club owners tend to care only about the profits the bar makes. Who can blame them? From their point of view, a band has only two virtues: how many people come to the club as followers of the band, and how much money the bar makes. If the bar makes money, the club owner has accomplished his goal, and he’s not going to lament

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I think it's regional. I get that there are professionals out there making it their business, but this is part of the competitive landscape, and to be honest my recreational surf band can't compete with a well rehearsed, crowd pleasing band that plays Classic Rock and has a female lead singer.(big draw where I live, I say ugh to all that 70's classic rock stuff)

I've played gigs all my life as a semi-professional and done my tour of duty, travelled, gotten paid well and not so well, released music, opened for bands better than ours and worse (who got paid more) etc. Now karaoke and dee jays are back so there are fewer bands hired, so I have a hard time thinking our bands are really impacting the landscape and taking away gigs from higher end bands. Of course it's probably regional and I have no idea what the scene is like on the West Coast. Most places around my neighborhood won't hire an unknown, even cheap; they make us play open mics or the local 10K run...

Surfcat

CHRISTMAS ON THE BEACH - SINGLE
CHRISTMAS ON THE PIER - EP

NEW - MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS (Released Oct 17, 2024) - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE Video - March of the Dead Surfers NEW

SPOTIFY LINK - AGENT OCTOPUS - SURF

Last edited: Jul 11, 2023 14:15:29

edwardsand wrote:

SixStringSurfer, I can totally understand where you are coming from, and if I had a band of any kind going these days, I'd be tempted to do many of those cheap or unpaid gigs because of the simple fact that I'd enjoy playing music for people and doing things like that can help build a following.

My main concern here is that people are putting a lot of labor into performing at any kind of gig, and they should be fairly compensated. Because so many people love playing music, there is a lot of competition and many are perfectly happy to play for little to nothing. I only wish the same was true of people who mow lawns or cut down trees. I'd be happy to have some guy bring his big mowing rig around to mow my lawn for only a couple of beers just because he's really into mowing.

While I believe in fair compensation, music has existed both as a vocation and an avocation for a long time. I spent some of my early years in the Midwest, and every social gathering seemed to have some music, usually played by people that just enjoyed playing music.

There was a time in my life when I scorned this. I was a young musician with an AFM Union card and made a good deal on my income from gigs. I had worked hard, sought out the best instructors I could find and worked very hard at my music. The thing was, I didn’t enjoy it as a way to make a living. In fact, I hated it. I could get gigs, I had a decent number of students, but I was not enjoying music. I found a different job, that I liked, but still took my music very seriously, which I do to this day.

I still play gigs, although the band I’ve been in has lost momentum, at this point. I still study music and practice. While my first love is Jazz, I also do some Chet Atkins style, Rock from the early ‘60s, and Country from the same era. I especially love playing Surf, in part because it challenges me to play cleanly and precisely, but also because I just plain dig it.

I avoid paying gigs. To me, that takes all of the joy out of it. Now, I’m not out playing club dates for free, if I’m part of the profit-making, then I should be compensated, but most gigs pay a fraction of what I earn by day, if you break it into a per hour basis, and if you include preparation, travel, load-in, load-out, and schlepping my gear back into the house at a late hour, the pay slips down into minimum wage range. So, for me, it’s not worth is. If I want extra money, I can do some network consulting and make more in an hour than I could for an entire gig.

To the best of my knowledge, there isn’t all that much going on in the way of live music, in the area. Let’s put it like this; if I wanted to go listen to live music in Tucson, I wouldn’t even know where to start. But I see no reason that I shouldn’t play community events, benefits, VA Hospital shows, and things like that. I doubt that I’m taking food off anyone’s table with these gigs.

If I wanted to make money from music, I’d probably play Country, just because there’s a fairly large market. But if I could live my dream, I’d be playing Jazz, Bossa Novas and the like. The chance of making money from that is pretty much nil, and if you want to make money in music, you had better be willing to travel. I, personally, start my pickup about three times a week, so no, I’m no longer an eager traveler. I like sleeping in my own bed. But I also like playing for an audience, so when the community events or benefits come along, I’m happy to play them, and truly, I don’t want, or need the money.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

You guys make some really good points, and I appreciate the respectful manner in which you presented them. The bottom line is, we all love to play music. Nobody gets in this business to get rich (I hope you didn't), we do it because it's our passion. Let's keep this thread going, as I continue to learn and grow from reading other people's point(s) of view.

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.

SixStringSurfer wrote:

You guys make some really good points, and I appreciate the respectful manner in which you presented them. The bottom line is, we all love to play music. Nobody gets in this business to get rich (I hope you didn't), we do it because it's our passion. Let's keep this thread going, as I continue to learn and grow from reading other people's point(s) of view.

I am sure you may solve your issues with playing live, but yes, it takes some time and efforts to build yourself there. I was lucky to be supported by friends from some top bands from the very beginning and invited to open for them as soon as the first program was ready, then it was easier. We have talked about it a bit in Messenger and surely you are welcome for any piece of mind I may give.

It also helps a lot to reflex a little on What I may give? Whom? Why do they need it? and then What I want to get from it? What I won’t do in any case and What is my ideal situation?

Hope this helps

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Good point Taifighter. Here the same bands get in a regular rotation due to familiarity, booking agent or regular crowd. So, not a lot of opportunities to get in. On the Eastern Shore, MD near Bay Bridge high % of venues requesting same bands.

Surfcat

CHRISTMAS ON THE BEACH - SINGLE
CHRISTMAS ON THE PIER - EP

NEW - MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS (Released Oct 17, 2024) - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE Video - March of the Dead Surfers NEW

SPOTIFY LINK - AGENT OCTOPUS - SURF

Fady wrote:

I can’t be the only one wondering what the marquee Surf events/festivals pay/compensate bands (Hi-Tide, SG101, Surfer Joe).

Pretend for a moment that that looks something like $300 for the build up bands and $1,000 for the headliner, all other travel, accommodations and meals are on you.

I have no idea what the actual numbers and ranges are. Zero. Nada. Zilch. I’m just saying whatever it looked like for the “premier national/international SURF events of the year” would be very useful data for this conversation.

In a sense, that illustrates the point of how challenging it is to make a living in the music business. I met a fellow, about 20 years ago, that played as a solo act, for a $3,500 minimum. That sounds like a lot of money, but if you consider the expense of travel, and life on the road, and that he had to pay a manager to travel with him, it wasn’t that much money. He was prosperous, no doubt, but far from independent wealth.

If I was asked to play as an opening act for a Surf show, I wouldn’t touch it for less than $500, if it were local. If it were 500 miles away, in LA, f’rinstance, at least triple that. That’s only $166 per band member, per day. (Two travel days, one performing day.) Honestly, I’d be a lot better off at my day job.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Synchro and Wiped,
Thanks for the intel; gives us something a bit more solid.

Surfcat

CHRISTMAS ON THE BEACH - SINGLE
CHRISTMAS ON THE PIER - EP

NEW - MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS (Released Oct 17, 2024) - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE Video - March of the Dead Surfers NEW

SPOTIFY LINK - AGENT OCTOPUS - SURF

Last edited: Jul 13, 2023 19:46:33

You make a good point, Bango Rilla. Different places have far different scenes, as far as gigs go. There are a few decent venues around here, but really not that many, as compared to some other towns. Back in the ‘70s, there were bands playing six nights s week, and people making a decent living. That’s not as common, these days.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Bango_Rilla wrote:

Samurai wrote:

It also helps a lot to reflex a little on What I may give? Whom? Why do they need it? and then What I want to get from it? What I won’t do in any case and What is my ideal situation?

Pretty much this.

We play for bananas. Some venues offer bananas up front, some offer a cut of bananas brought to the door. Some gigs pay some bananas and some gigs pay LOTS of bananas. If you are just striking out, figure you're going to get a bunch of gigs with low banana counts, but it's still fun......right?? If the venue/booker approaches you, have a number of bananas in mind AKA what's my lowest banana count. HOWEVER, if the gig is cool, that low banana count might go out the window!

Some venues have limited bananas, some have a lot. Some venues will only book four band gigs, so get ready to round up three other bands, or make friends locally and have them keep you in mind when they want to book a four band gig. Some venues want a four hour set, and wants to know what your audience will be. SOME venues want you to pre-sell tickets on their behalf (That's, just, bananas, but not in the good way).

There's no strict banana answer. Each locality and venue is going to be different. Go see other bands locally and make friends with them. Every band knows there's other bands in the audience, so network. Make friends with chimps and apes, so that you're not totally pitching yourself, multi band pitches work better. Especially if your locality doesn't know surf that well.

(Image for illustration only, and does not represent actual GGR banana count)

Hard to convey the wry grin this post brought. Not in the grim nor irony nor mockery sense, much more the clever, sly and amused sense. I love and truly appreciate how well you stayed 'in character' while making such a sincere and salient contribution to the conversation. Really well done!

edit: corrected quoting attribution - thanks for the call out, SixString!

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

Last edited: Jul 14, 2023 11:48:20