Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Aug 22 2007 08:19 PM
Sonichris
To be honest, the "never trust a and without a bass player" quote I stole, I don't know where I heard it, I just thought it was funny. It was in reference to 80's synth bands. The Ray Manzerek shot was probably uncalled for, but still funny I think. ...
No, perfectly fair and relevant. Nice inside jab. Definitely funny. Manzarek would definitely have laughed. He'd have to. A shit-eating grin at the least. If he has any class he has to be conscious a certain anomaly there. Sort of like pointing out to somebody who has forgotten his pants and is trying to brazen it out that, really, he isn't wearing any pants. What can he say but "Yeaaaah, ... But I was hoping nobody would notice."
I was going to say something about the Doors apparently having a bit of shame in the matter and segue to a question about the Belair's bass player, because that had been puzzling me.
But then as I was formulating the question, I rediscovered that album insert, decided I'd better read it for form's sake, to see if I'd overlooked anything, and quickly realized that I had very nearly revealed the real and profound depths of my laziness and ignorance, and quickly reformulated my brief question as a long-winded comment. I'm afraid the rewrite may have undermined the logic of the tie-in. Maybe I should have left it out, but it was funny and I couldn't resist including it. 
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Aug 22 2007 08:29 PM
bigtikidude
... it gives the impression if you are not listening real close that there is a bass there.
So much so, that in all honesty I had never noticed anything unusual until I listened again, and even then, I wasn't sure the first time through. The moral of that is that if you're any good, then maybe for a long time the less astute members of the audience will not l notice if you don't have a bass player, as long as you don't point it out. Eventually, however, they will start counting on their fingers and looking puzzled.
I'm pretty sure I would have noticed immediately if there wasn't a drummer.
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JeffLeites
Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 343
North Hollywood, California
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Posted on Aug 22 2007 09:07 PM
Tuck
Sonichris
To be honest, the "never trust a and without a bass player" quote I stole, I don't know where I heard it, I just thought it was funny. It was in reference to 80's synth bands. The Ray Manzerek shot was probably uncalled for, but still funny I think. ...
No, perfectly fair and relevant. Nice inside jab. Definitely funny. Manzarek would definitely have laughed. He'd have to. A shit-eating grin at the least. If he has any class he has to be conscious a certain anomaly there. Sort of like pointing out to somebody who has forgotten his pants and is trying to brazen it out that, really, he isn't wearing any pants. What can he say but "Yeaaaah, ... But I was hoping nobody would notice."
I was going to say something about the Doors apparently having a bit of shame in the matter and segue to a question about the Belair's bass player, because that had been puzzling me.
But then as I was formulating the question, I rediscovered that album insert, decided I'd better read it for form's sake, to see if I'd overlooked anything, and quickly realized that I had very nearly revealed the real and profound depths of my laziness and ignorance, and quickly reformulated my brief question as a long-winded comment. I'm afraid the rewrite may have undermined the logic of the tie-in. Maybe I should have left it out, but it was funny and I couldn't resist including it.
What?
image
— My Web Site - Tunes - Pictures - Guitar Projects - Hard Rock Cafe Guitar Pins
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Aug 26 2007 03:42 PM
Not everybody appreciates my sense of humor, I see. I am a big Doors fan, however. I also admire Manzarek's playing and his ability to analyze and describe what he was doing. For that matter I like Morrison's singing, although I heard him described once as having a range of nearly an octave.  The phrasing is great, though. I do find his presence or persona or whatever it was a bit disturbing.
Anyway, I apologize for including this thing about kidding the Doors about not having a bass in this thread. I think that they are a valid example of a good, functioning rock band that didn't have a bass - deliberately, if not quite completely. However, humor about not meeting some sort of paradigm band structure is not really what I was getting at. Rather, I wanted to point out that some bands don't meet the "no-band-without-a-bass" paradigm and maybe look at some of the reasons why they were formed that way.
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Aug 26 2007 04:33 PM
A couple more bands with non-standard bass arrangements:
The Vogues (=> Customs => Original Surfaris):
First recorded (1961) with drums, keyboards, rhythm, lead, sax. For a while before recording they had two sax players. Acquired a bass player (Jim Tran) in 1962. "We didn't have a bass player, but Ted did a great job of recording and mixing so it sounded like we didn't need one." (Robert J. Dalley's liner notes to The Original Surfaris Bombora!)
The Sea Grems 7 (=> The Centurions a/k/a the Centurians)
"By mid-1961 Dennis Rose and Ernie Furrow (_now alternating guitar and bass_) and Ken Robinson (tenor, alto, and soprano sax, flute and clarinet) were still playing music together. Eventually they added drummer Joe Dominic and Bassist Jeff Lear, then expanded to include Pat Gaguebin (baritone sax, tenor and alto sax, and harmonica) and Jerry Dicks (Hammond B-3 organ and piano), and sometimes even an occasional lead vocalist, Dennis Kiklas." (Bryan Thomas' liner notes to Bullwinkle Part II: the Centurions.)
The impression I have is that c. 1961 it was relatively easy to find saxophonists (like drummer and pianists, mostly from the school band), and, especially in the pre-Surf R&B combos, it considered reasonable to have one or even two or three saxophonists in a band. On the other hand, it was hard to find electric basses and even harder to find people who were specialized in playing them. Some bands did without a bass, others had two or more members who alternated playing bass with playing other instruments. I don't think any band ever deliberately decided that a bass would be undesirable.
It's somewhat instructive to compare the early groups with the Surf Teens, first formed (or at least first hired) in 1963. They had the now standard lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass, and drums (aged 16, 16, 20, and 13). Notice that the bassist was the elderly 20 year old. Their discoverer/promoter Norman Knowles (sax player with the Revels and music hustler) says of them "The Surf Teens were one of the first true surf bands. Most of the well-known "surf" bands like the Revels and the Sentinels played surf but also were blues and rock & roll bands." (Deke Dickerson's liner notes for Surf Mania with the Surf Teens.)
Last edited: Sep 14, 2007 20:29:33
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krupanut
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 492
Austin Texas
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Posted on Aug 27 2007 08:57 AM
Two of my fav bass-less bands.
The Rockin' Rs
The Fendermen
— The Thunderchiefs
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surfneptune
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 923
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Posted on Oct 08 2007 04:31 PM
Tuck
I've always kind of wondered how the double-necked phase of the Neptunes worked out in practice. I assume there wasn't always someone on base, or, rather, bass. I've never tried to figure it out on the CD.
One of us was always playing bass, (o yeah we had a part of Rockula where I played guitar for a measure or two) I did use to switch to bass during solos for fun, but we never worked out any elaborate switch mid song.
— THe NEpTuNeS
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Oct 08 2007 06:32 PM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 28, 2009 17:23:03
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2063
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Oct 10 2007 09:49 AM
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2775
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Oct 10 2007 04:20 PM
I've been wondering, is this thread about bands who can't catch fish? ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2775
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Oct 10 2007 04:33 PM
I can remember two groups locally who did not have a "bass guitarist" but instead, used a Fender piano bass. Those bad boys beat the crap out of any bass guitar I heard at the time. Both groups' keyboard player played bass on the Fender unit with their left hand and were using the same Kustom K200 bass amps. That was definately some of the biggest, deepest bass I've ever heard before the era of modern full range PA systems...... When the Young Rascals played in Atlanta, Felix played bass on the Hammond's pedals........And who can forget the great bass on the Penetrators Locked and Loaded CD's Deception Bay. Yep, you guessed it, Hammond organ bass pedals............ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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