DrakeSequation
Joined: Nov 22, 2016
Posts: 79
PNW
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Posted on Apr 19 2022 02:22 PM
Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but I have been active on SurfGuitar101 weekly since the mid 00's when the site was text-only. Perhaps more relevant, like many of you, surf music is not just a hobby or interest but part of my soul. It is a mental and intellectual salve I refer to daily.
I have noticed two things about the site that I believe could have a common solution: The first is that there is a fairly low amount of new content/active involvement. I think that is in part because surf music and its associated gear is very traditional. How many messages about (mostly) Fender guitars and (mostly) Fender amps plus reverb units are going to be engaging year after year? While there has been tons of great surf gear issued in the last decade, the only game changing surf-centric item I can think of is the Surfybear reverb tank as it put a real outboard reverb within reach of everyone.
The second is that there is a shockingly low number of tabbed songs available on the site. I was really surprised by this when I took a look. This is doubly tragic because there are very few surf guitar tabs out there generally, even on the mega sites. And when they are there there tend to be multiple tabs of the same few "hits" over and over (I am looking at you Walk, Don't Run). I would bet the songs members of this site have learned number in the thousands. I have many Laika and the. Cosmonauts tabbed out that I have never seen online. I have never seen any Messer Chups tabs anywhere. Why not pool that cumulative knowledge and get people doing what they love? Playing surf tunes!
I think creating a dedicated and user-friendly tab section on the site would be really synergetic as it would get users contributing new material and provide a great resource to reinvigorate everyone to pick up their guitar. There is practically an endless supply of great surf songs out there, only a tiny sliver of which are ever played. I have given this a lot of thought and the layout I had in mind would have four sections:
- Completed songs
- Partial songs
- Requests
- Discussion
I am willing to do whatever needs to be done to help this along including curate/maintain/moderate that section of the site, field messages, et cetera. If each regular contributed just one song the site would have a huge resource. I know I have many more than that.
— Makai
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Fady
Joined: Mar 07, 2010
Posts: 2274
North Carolina
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Posted on Apr 19 2022 09:07 PM
I’ve had a similar thought and I think it could have legs. My thinking was how might the community ‘teach to fish’ vs ‘give a fish’. Meaning, what if there was a thread focused on a song a month, and each week, a progression of learning it. Might go something like this:
Week 1: Name the song, talk about the original composer, artist, release history, why it’s special or interesting to the ‘coach’/steward. Start talking about the arrangement, notable characteristics heard in the instrumentation that will be key to transcription, sounds like/similar song references, etc.
Week 2: Frame up the structure of the song, discuss what key it’s played in and therefore what chords are present and if/where there might be key changes or out of key chords and such.
Week 3/4: Work out actual chords, melody, tempo/feel/rhythm, notable intro’, outro’s, motif’s and turn around or tags, discuss playing positions and tips/tricks on fingerings and economy of movement etc.
Week 4 / Conclusions: Summarize what was unique, notable or special about the song and learning it and transcribing it. Suggest alternate versions to also check out and how/why they may be interesting or new takes worth exploring and expanding the skills and insights learned.
Could conclude with proper chord sheets, tab for lead/melody, perhaps even a backing track or video demonstrations of the final right/best transcription.
Would be a lot of effort and probably each song thread best led by someone confident and comfortable championing the song and it’s weekly discussion and progress (rather than the blind leading the blind, or deaf leading the deaf as it may be).
I have to think if something like this were to take hold, besides driving up the engagement and expanding the library - both invaluable and desirable - there’d also be quite a bit more learning and reward/gratification for many (vs. ape’ing which is fun and good in its own right). That might even turn into more people feeling comfortable leading the process for more songs. Almost sounds like a pyramid scheme, but there’s no catch or compounding premiums for being in early. But I digress.
Anyhow, love the idea and topic. Thanks for compelling me to chime in as someone also having recurring and similar thoughts on the idea!
— Fady
El Mirage @ ReverbNation
Last edited: Apr 19, 2022 21:07:52
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Tele295
Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Posts: 153
Rincon Beach, California, USA
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Posted on Apr 19 2022 10:08 PM
Would the mods consider adding a song discussion forum here? We could have a single thread per song.
I’m working on a similar idea, but trying to assemble just the basic melody and chord changes, Real Book style, for jamming and study. I play various instruments in several different tunings, so tab is of limited use to me.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 09:13 AM
Tele295 wrote:
Would the mods consider adding a song discussion forum here? We could have a single thread per song.
I’m working on a similar idea, but trying to assemble just the basic melody and chord changes, Real Book style, for jamming and study. I play various instruments in several different tunings, so tab is of limited use to me.
I'd say the Surf Musician forum covers songwriting
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 09:44 AM
DannySnyder wrote:
I'd say the Surf Musician forum covers songwriting
I just put a request for tabs in the Surf Musician forum.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 10:59 AM
I like this idea. My playing is not so great, but my ear is pretty good. I have lots of songs that I could contribute, but I really like the song I just finished, which is Fallout by Aston Martin and the Moon Discs.
An issue for me is that the notes I take for documenting a song are sparse, and it will take some work to make them understandable. However, I'll give it a go.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2291
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 02:49 PM
“ Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but”
I think this is the starting point. If you want forum to be more active you should POST. Nobody will do it for you. The idea is great but, again, nobody will do it for you and nobody will hire people to make tabs. I see that you are ready to go into implementation, great, I am also in! But I am sure we shouldn’t wait for some decisions from moderators, just tab and post, why not? We are making forum active or not, nobody else.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 04:00 PM
I'm finding that MuseScore is nice software for making scores and tabs. Within an hour or so I know what I need to know for basic work. Available for Linux, Mac, and Windows.
This has the added bonus of helping me learn the fretboard better.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 06:01 PM
Samurai wrote:
“ Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but”
I think this is the starting point. If you want forum to be more active you should POST. Nobody will do it for you. The idea is great but, again, nobody will do it for you and nobody will hire people to make tabs. I see that you are ready to go into implementation, great, I am also in! But I am sure we shouldn’t wait for some decisions from moderators, just tab and post, why not? We are making forum active or not, nobody else.
Well said Vitaly. Have at it guys.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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DrakeSequation
Joined: Nov 22, 2016
Posts: 79
PNW
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 06:15 PM
Samurai wrote:
“ Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but”
I think this is the starting point. If you want forum to be more active you should POST. Nobody will do it for you. The idea is great but, again, nobody will do it for you and nobody will hire people to make tabs. I see that you are ready to go into implementation, great, I am also in! But I am sure we shouldn’t wait for some decisions from moderators, just tab and post, why not? We are making forum active or not, nobody else.
That is a fair enough observation, however it does not address the ‘why’. The reason I (and many other I assume) do not contribute to the tabs section is that it lacks the organization and infrastructure to be approachable and user-friendly. I think making a plan and implementing a lasting system is better than adding to a broken one. My purpose in my original post is not to scold or criticize but to bring it to the attention of the community.
It also does not address my core observation. Is the tab section what it should/could be given the number of guitar players here, most of whom tab out much of what they learn? Is it a useful resource for newcomers who may not be able to learn songs and cannot buy sheet music for surf songs because it does not exist? Would you like a nice tab section? If not then there is nothing to fix. If an impressive tab section and the interaction it would stimulate is something the community would like I think it could be achieved quiet quickly and constantly be expanded upon.
— Makai
Last edited: Apr 20, 2022 18:43:43
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Joelman
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 1506
Redlands, CA
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 09:06 PM
DrakeSequation wrote:
Samurai wrote:
“ Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but”
I think this is the starting point. If you want forum to be more active you should POST. Nobody will do it for you. The idea is great but, again, nobody will do it for you and nobody will hire people to make tabs. I see that you are ready to go into implementation, great, I am also in! But I am sure we shouldn’t wait for some decisions from moderators, just tab and post, why not? We are making forum active or not, nobody else.
That is a fair enough observation, however it does not address the ‘why’. The reason I (and many other I assume) do not contribute to the tabs section is that it lacks the organization and infrastructure to be approachable and user-friendly. I think making a plan and implementing a lasting system is better than adding to a broken one. My purpose in my original post is not to scold or criticize but to bring it to the attention of the community.
It also does not address my core observation. Is the tab section what it should/could be given the number of guitar players here, most of whom tab out much of what they learn? Is it a useful resource for newcomers who may not be able to learn songs and cannot buy sheet music for surf songs because it does not exist? Would you like a nice tab section? If not then there is nothing to fix. If an impressive tab section and the interaction it would stimulate is something the community would like I think it could be achieved quiet quickly and constantly be expanded upon.
so have you posted your self created tabs into the tab section?
Please do so post haste.
I’m looking forward playing them.
Last edited: Apr 20, 2022 21:06:52
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jakewis10
Joined: Nov 05, 2021
Posts: 39
New Jersey, USA
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Posted on Apr 20 2022 10:38 PM
Personally what I think would help the site most is more discussion. Several weeks ago I made a post trying to revive polls, which would be a simple way to ignite some small conversations. I feel like that would be a great start.
I also really like the song discussion forum idea mentioned above, with a thread for each song. That could generate some activity as well.
— Jake
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2291
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 06:54 AM
DrakeSequation wrote:
Samurai wrote:
“ Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but”
I think this is the starting point. If you want forum to be more active you should POST. Nobody will do it for you. The idea is great but, again, nobody will do it for you and nobody will hire people to make tabs. I see that you are ready to go into implementation, great, I am also in! But I am sure we shouldn’t wait for some decisions from moderators, just tab and post, why not? We are making forum active or not, nobody else.
That is a fair enough observation, however it does not address the ‘why’. The reason I (and many other I assume) do not contribute to the tabs section is that it lacks the organization and infrastructure to be approachable and user-friendly. I think making a plan and implementing a lasting system is better than adding to a broken one. My purpose in my original post is not to scold or criticize but to bring it to the attention of the community.
It also does not address my core observation. Is the tab section what it should/could be given the number of guitar players here, most of whom tab out much of what they learn? Is it a useful resource for newcomers who may not be able to learn songs and cannot buy sheet music for surf songs because it does not exist? Would you like a nice tab section? If not then there is nothing to fix. If an impressive tab section and the interaction it would stimulate is something the community would like I think it could be achieved quiet quickly and constantly be expanded upon.
I do not use tabs much, preferring “by ear” as a more useful approach as for me. Sure when I started playing I would have loved to have a structured tab section! I’ve never tabbed anything myself but may be a good exercise as well, cause my band’s tunes exist only in my head and live records)))
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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DeathTide
Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1379
New Orleans
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 07:53 AM
DrakeSequation wrote:
Few of you recognize my name and my post count is very low, but I have been active on SurfGuitar101 weekly since the mid 00's when the site was text-only. Perhaps more relevant, like many of you, surf music is not just a hobby or interest but part of my soul. It is a mental and intellectual salve I refer to daily.
The only way to start this is a giant contribution to the site. That’s where this begins and ends. Contribute enough so Brian can either hire a developer or quit his job.
— Daniel Deathtide
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19346
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 08:20 AM
I think the tools are there to start something like this. Make some forum threads, go for it! If it takes off we can talk about a custom forum or something different.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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DrakeSequation
Joined: Nov 22, 2016
Posts: 79
PNW
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 02:22 PM
DeathTide wrote:
The only way to start this is a giant contribution to the site. That’s where this begins and ends. Contribute enough so Brian can either hire a developer or quit his job.
Starting a tab section as I proposed is no where near that kind of investment monetarily or time-wise. (correct me if I am wrong, but...) This site is not a ground up fully custom site. It has a basic template with some options. Adding a new section does not necessitate reconstructing the entire thing.
— Makai
Last edited: Apr 21, 2022 14:25:44
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DrakeSequation
Joined: Nov 22, 2016
Posts: 79
PNW
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 02:23 PM
Brian wrote:
I think the tools are there to start something like this. Make some forum threads, go for it! If it takes off we can talk about a custom forum or something different.
I think it would fair much better if the framework were in place first, but I appreciate that you see the potential in my idea and are at least open to it. Thank you.
— Makai
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19346
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 07:59 PM
This site is not a ground up fully custom site.
Well.. in fact is. I wrote the forums software myself. Yes it is easy to add new sub-forums but let's see if your idea has legs before I start messing around with that.
I think it would fair much better if the framework were in place first
Again, let's see if it takes off. Several times in the past someone has made bold suggestions and volunteers their time only to disappear never to be seen again. It's not super clear to me what you want in any event.
We also have a wiki if you want to use that. I was considering removing the wiki because it never really took off either.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19346
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Apr 21 2022 08:02 PM
jakewis10 wrote:
Personally what I think would help the site most is more discussion. Several weeks ago I made a post trying to revive polls, which would be a simple way to ignite some small conversations. I feel like that would be a great start.
In your thread I asked for poll suggestions and didn't see any.
I also really like the song discussion forum idea mentioned above, with a thread for each song. That could generate some activity as well.
Go ahead and start such threads in the Surf Musician forum. If you build it (hopefully) they will come.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19346
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Apr 22 2022 07:29 PM
Give me a few days and I'll try to get a list of all the tabs and backing tracks along with links that we can put in a forum post.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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