Need you thought on surf trio with, yes, one guitar) drums and bass.

Sometimes I feel my guitar parts (and the composition in general) lacks some fullness, power, consistency or whatever. Rhythm section is doing it best to give powerful background but still...Any hints, advice?

More attitude towards three piece arrangement? How you do this?
More chord use to fill in the gaps? What else? Notice some shortened chords here and there, like three notes in a time, what are they? What shall I read on music theory may be?
Practice harder in making more notes per second?)

I’ve tried to add a second guitar a couple of times, wasn’t bad but wasn’t this great. I feel much better in trio format and my guys too.

Thanks)

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Slacktone.
I know... you'd have to be amazing
But boy does he (Dave) fill in the gaps.

Dick Dale, was so dominant. He IS the lead, the rhythm section follows HIM.
His big string help too, filling in she spectrum. Tons of slides, tremolo slides, noises, a lot of reverb, expressive at all times. Then, even his silences are meaningful.

Commit, you can't be a shy one in this situation.

Last edited: Mar 23, 2020 13:38:16

Here I always figured there were trios because it's hard enough to get three like minded musicians together to play surf, let alone four. I can't think of a situation where a surf combo is hurt by the addition of a rhythm guitar. A virtuoso has been mentioned as the exception, but most are not that and I find listening to the trio thing a little less interesting most times. Lots of texture is missing.

revmike wrote:

Welcome to the trio club. This is my favourite format for playing surf, and the make up of Urban Surf Kings, of course. Here are some tips:

Guitar:
Add chords to help fill out: chord melody, in spaces.
Use double stops, or 3 note chords to harmonize the melody
Tremolo picking (Dick Dale style) fills up space nicely
Play melodies on the lower strings for a fuller sound

Bass:
Lines using more than just the root note
Lines playing something rhythmically different than the guitar

Drums:
Use the ride cymbal in place of the hi-hat for a fuller sound.
Quarter notes on the bass drum.

Also - Embrace the sparseness.

Rev

I agree completely. I play in a trio and greatly prefer that format. Yes, I do embrace the sparseness. Good rhythm players are not easy to find. Listen to Bruce Welch or Don Wilson. That sort of rhythm playing does not grow on trees.

websurfer wrote:

Here I always figured there were trios because it's hard enough to get three like minded musicians together to play surf, let alone four. I can't think of a situation where a surf combo is hurt by the addition of a rhythm guitar. A virtuoso has been mentioned as the exception, but most are not that and I find listening to the trio thing a little less interesting most times. Lots of texture is missing.

I can think of such a situation. If the rhythm player doesn’t know his stuff. One of the reasons I play in trios is that I am picky about rhythm parts. IMO, a good rhythm part is one of the highest callings a guitarist can aspire to.

TheFintastics wrote:

My band is a two piece! Lead guitar and bass guitar. We perform to a backing track comprised of real drums and a rhythm guitar that I record and layer onto the drums.

After going through six drummers in five years, enough was enough. It's like starting over each and every time.

I love two guitar surf bands because it adds middle frequencies to an otherwise lacking sound when the lead is tremolo picking on the upper GBE strings.

However, I say that but some three piece bands are incredibly talented such as the Black Flamingos, Par Avion, Boss Martians, Surfer Joe and my favorite, The Delstroyers (who play with keyboard backing tracks).

Have you been following me around? That is almost exactly our story with regard to drummers. Spinal Tap has better luck. Keeping a band together is not so easy, these days.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I enjoy surf trios (1 guitar), 4 pc (2 gtrs), and 5 pc (3 gtrs, like The Astronauts!). Obviously, Slacktone Dave is a wonderful player and he brings in elements like tape echo as a way to add some special sauce at times. I agree with others here that the bass player needs to explore more walking lines and help cover the midrange. The great thing about a single guitar is that there is less "frequency competition" and even lower-register riffs stand out in the mix better. At venues where the sound and/or sound engineering is less than optimal, a dynamic 3 piece can fill out a lot of frequencies yet have the space between notes that adds a different kind of depth to the music. I loved music like Rush and The Police growing up so it is quite a normal thing. There are bands like Slacktone and Messer Chups that you start asking "what the heck could a rhythm guitar do in there and make it better"...most often, you'd think "no, it would get in the way"...you just need to reverse-engineer their approach and make it your own style.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

Last edited: Mar 24, 2020 00:23:47

TheFintastics wrote:

My band is a two piece! Lead guitar and bass guitar. We perform to a backing track comprised of real drums and a rhythm guitar that I record and layer onto the drums.

After going through six drummers in five years, enough was enough. It's like starting over each and every time.

I love two guitar surf bands because it adds middle frequencies to an otherwise lacking sound when the lead is tremolo picking on the upper GBE strings.

However, I say that but some three piece bands are incredibly talented such as the Black Flamingos, Par Avion, Boss Martians, Surfer Joe and my favorite, The Delstroyers (who play with keyboard backing tracks).

Cool) Like Hola Ghost! band with drum machine)

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Thoughts on using a looper? Any shame in it?

I don't think is necessary to fill every hole. Space in music is key - too much music these days doesn't have any. Embrace the space!

The great thing about a single guitar is that there is less "frequency competition" and even lower-register riffs stand out in the mix better. At venues where the sound and/or sound engineering is less than optimal, a dynamic 3 piece can fill out a lot of frequencies yet have the space between notes that adds a different kind of depth to the music. ... There are bands like Slacktone and Messer Chups that you start asking "what the heck could a rhythm guitar do in there and make it better"...most often, you'd think "no, it would get in the way" ...

I think these are important points. I also play pedal steel guitar in various contexts. To me, that type of clean, spacious, twangy sound that shares much with surf guitar sounds, really shines in a spacious musical environment. Someone asked on another thread why I love surf music - that's one of many aspects that has always attracted me.

I think the guitarist who probably, to me, best embodied the ability to do everything in a trio format was Jimi Hendrix. I know, not surf music. And I know, lots of the studio stuff had him layering guitars, expanding his sound using effects, and so on. But I still learn things listening to him that I can apply to any style of music, even 50+ years later.

The Delverados - surf, punk, trash, twang - Facebook
Chicken Tractor Deluxe - hardcore Americana - Facebook and Website
The Telegrassers - semi-electric bluegrass/Americana - Facebook

stratdancer wrote:

Our last practice was as a three piece and that was caused by a corona virus quarantine. What I discovered was that tempos needed to be brought up, the drummer added sonic excitement with much more splash/crash cymbal rhythms and I picked out music that had much more trem picking. For instance, we cover Journey to the Stars in a Ventures tempo but moved to a MOAM version and played as fast as we could. Very fun and very full!

Cool, David! Thanks!

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

This is only my opinion, but I believe a good gretsch guitar works best in a 3 piece. In fact I don't like it at all in 4 piece bands, but it's awesome (in the true sense of the word) when it has the sonic space to do it's thing.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF