jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 11:34 AM
Hey all - I've got to replace the pan in my re-issue. I've done it many times before, but am only now reading the importance of having to match the replacement pan's impedance with the tank's. How important is this and what are the ill-effects if the two don't match? I'm having trouble finding out what the RI's impedance is on top of that! I see replacement pans that range from 8ohms to like 200... which would be a good replacement?
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 12:21 PM
Are you looking at new or used pans? Impedence is very important to get the best sound.
You want 2Ω ±1 at input and 170Ω ± 20 at the output when measuring with an ohm meter
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
Last edited: Jan 09, 2020 12:34:40
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 12:44 PM
Preferably new... I've replaced the pan a few times before, but never really thought about impedance.
DannySnyder wrote:
Are you looking at new or used pans? Impedence is very important to get the best sound.
You want 2Ω ±1 at input and 170Ω ± 20 at the output when measuring with an ohm meter
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
Facebook: The Men in Gray Suits
Instagram: The Men in Gray Suits
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 12:50 PM
The first one in this list is the standard pan for most Fender reverbs including the standalone tank.
If you go with another brand, it should say compatible with the 4AB3C1B
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 01:06 PM
Ah, thanks! The 4AB3C1B is listed as a "long decay" and I'm looking for the medium decay one... trying to find that now.
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 01:10 PM
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 01:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, what kind of issues would I run into if I used a pan with a non-matching impedance (either too high or too low)?
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
Facebook: The Men in Gray Suits
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Gilette
Joined: May 04, 2014
Posts: 734
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 02:00 PM
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Last edited: Mar 03, 2022 06:29:35
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 02:07 PM
Ahh... this all makes sense. At one point, when the springs broke in the pan I had in there, I was desperate (had a gig coming up), so I took the pan from an old Fender Twin ('71) and put it in the tank. Sounded good, but the decay was waaaaaaay too long. I'll have to check what Accutronics pan it was, but I'm guessing not the right one.
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
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Gilette
Joined: May 04, 2014
Posts: 734
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Posted on Jan 09 2020 02:26 PM
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Last edited: Mar 03, 2022 06:29:13
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 13 2020 10:47 AM
The 4AB3C1B is listed as a long decay... the medium decay model (4AB2C1B) doesn't have the right input ohms (600). Would that be an issue? My main thing here is that I want to maximize the splash and minimize the trail decay. The one by MOD matches the ohms, but the Accutronics input ohms are really high in comparison.
I feel like I'm overthinking this... lol
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
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Last edited: Jan 13, 2020 11:08:08
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Surfadelphia
Joined: Sep 04, 2017
Posts: 437
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Posted on Jan 13 2020 09:19 PM
jimbones wrote:
The 4AB3C1B is listed as a long decay... the medium decay model (4AB2C1B) doesn't have the right input ohms (600). Would that be an issue? My main thing here is that I want to maximize the splash and minimize the trail decay. The one by MOD matches the ohms, but the Accutronics input ohms are really high in comparison.
I feel like I'm overthinking this... lol
One of the differences between MOD brand pans and Accutronics is that MOD pans will generally have more decay/tail than the equivalent Accutronics pan. I tried a MOD pan in my 6G15 clone and found it to be less splashy and have more tail/decay than the stock MIK Accutronics pan which I put back in. The MOD pan was definitely the correct replacement for the Accutronics 4AB3C1B. Of course, reverb pans can be all over the place these days as far as how even the same model pans will sound. That being said I do like MOD pans but I think they sound better in combo amps, where having the fuller, fatter reverb on hand improves on the inherent limitations of on board reverb. For outboard tanks, I prefer the splashier and less extreme decay of the Accutronics.
Last edited: Jan 13, 2020 21:20:13
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ELZEB
Joined: Aug 30, 2017
Posts: 55
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Posted on Jan 14 2020 06:20 AM
I can't help you concerning impedance mismatching, but I can tell you the MOD "medium decay" pans I've tested had longer decay than my Belton-Accutronics "long decay" pans.
And even within the same brand and model, pans can vary a lot. I've had to buy and test several Belton-Accutronics pans before I found one I liked.
— https://soundcloud.com/elzeb
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doctorock78
Joined: Aug 08, 2018
Posts: 42
Honolulu, HI
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Posted on Jan 15 2020 06:43 PM
jimbones wrote:
The 4AB3C1B is listed as a long decay... the medium decay model (4AB2C1B) doesn't have the right input ohms (600). Would that be an issue? My main thing here is that I want to maximize the splash and minimize the trail decay. The one by MOD matches the ohms, but the Accutronics input ohms are really high in comparison.
I feel like I'm overthinking this... lol
Jim !! Aloha Sir! I went through a lengthy period of spring pan exploration and have found that the pan you desire was mostly made in the 60's... by Gibbs (sometimes Accutronics although they tend to be 70's and can have a longer decay. SO! Ebay often has them for sale, typically salvaged from organs. The trick is finding the ones with the correct impedances. Someone above in this thread listed the 2 optimal values. If you can talk the seller into getting out their multimeter you should be able to find a few from time to time. They tend to be brighter, drippier, and shorter in decay (seems like what was used for first wave surf recordings? I can take a look when I get home (remind me if I space on this offer... 2 kids now...)and tell you the color of the transducer housings (they are color coded) so even if the seller won't measure them you can still tell which ones you should try out. Cheers, Robbin
— Robbin Henley (Men in Grey Suits HONOLULU)
https://www.facebook.com/Men-In-Grey-Suits-207897529235582/
www.meningreysuits.com
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doctorock78
Joined: Aug 08, 2018
Posts: 42
Honolulu, HI
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Posted on Jan 15 2020 06:44 PM
DannySnyder wrote:
Are you looking at new or used pans? Impedence is very important to get the best sound.
You want 2Ω ±1 at input and 170Ω ± 20 at the output when measuring with an ohm meter
THIS! (plus my advice)
— Robbin Henley (Men in Grey Suits HONOLULU)
https://www.facebook.com/Men-In-Grey-Suits-207897529235582/
www.meningreysuits.com
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jimbones
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 151
Montreal
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Posted on Jan 15 2020 06:53 PM
Hey Robin! Thanks so much for replying! From one man in a gray suit to another, we gotta stick together! ;) Out of desperation (my other pan died on me... too much kicking, I believe!), I ordered another MOD pan with a medium decay. They're pretty cheap, but they're also new... the vintage ones, you describe sound like they might do the trick... the hunt is on!
P.S. any time you want to replace that hot, Hawaiian sand with bitterly cold snow, just say the word!!! 
— The Men in Gray Suits (Montreal, Canada)
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j_flanders
Joined: Jun 28, 2017
Posts: 162
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Posted on Jan 31 2020 06:48 PM
jimbones wrote:
The 4AB3C1B is listed as a long decay... the medium decay model (4AB2C1B) doesn't have the right input ohms (600).
600 Ohm would be a 4EB3C1B pan.
The second digit/letter states the input impedance.
A=8Ohm
If the online store specs say otherwise, it's a mistake.
So, it does have the same input impedance:
4= type (2 spring long tank) (not crucial)
A= 8 Ohm (input impedance) (important)
B= 2250 Ohm (output impedance) (important)
3= decay time (long) (not crucial)
C= Input Insulated / Output Grounded (crucial, very important)
1= No Lock (not crucial)
B= Horizontal Open Side Down (not crucial)
https://www.mojotone.com/kb-reverb-tanks/Reverb-Tank-Specifications
The importance of the input impedance is similar to the impedance of a speaker.
Instead of driving the voice coil of a speaker you're driving the voice coil of a spring reverb.
If your amp's output is designed for an 8 Ohm speaker, you can still use a 4Ohm speaker or a 16Ohm speaker.
The 4Ohm speaker will sound louder and the 16Ohm speaker will be quieter. The frequency response will also change somewhat.
So, there's some room to deviate from the ideal, but you probably can't safely hook it up to a 4x12 with four 16 Ohm speakers connected in series.
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dickey
Joined: Mar 03, 2020
Posts: 11
Florida
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Posted on Mar 03 2020 07:11 PM
What is the difference between PAN & TANK? I thought they were the same thing.
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FritzCat
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 685
Sonoma, CA
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Posted on Mar 03 2020 07:23 PM
A pan is the spring component itself, a tank can mean either the pan or the whole reverb apparatus.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Mar 03 2020 07:24 PM
The pan is the actual spring assembly, which you find in every amp. Tank is what people use to refer to the entire outboard reverb unit.
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