Weren't the Chantays the first band to get a Fender outboard reverb? I remember reading that in a thread on here about the is-there-reverb-on-Misirlou debate.

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

Duane Eddy was instrumental in using literal (Tank Reverb). It was a big giant natural Gas tank that was laying around a construction site behind the New Mexico studio he was recording at. One of the recording engineers came up with the idea to put a speaker inside one end and a microphone on the other. Goldstar studios in LA had one under the shopping center out front of the entrance area accessed from the cellar. EMI sent the Beatles producer George Martin over to Goldstar to learn how to do all that. Rest is history.

Dick Dale had Fender build the out board Tank Reverb Unit because he originally wanted the Tank reverb for his vocals, but noticed his guitar bleeding through the mic sounded better with it. So he plugged it directly in and got the surf sound. Evidently Fender used many bands around LA and Orange County as a test bed for all his equipment - Eddie Bertrand got custom color guitars and wiring along with special speakers etc that was not commercial products even though they looked like it.

I just tried out a Distortion Pedal for some Metal sound and pumped that through the Flanger Pedal. Wow that's my sound/ I had to cut back the Mix, Tone big time on the Spring Unit(only needed half the amount without Distortion Pedal in the loop. So I guess I only need a small amp for the Spring being it sounds better with lower settings anyway with this set-up.

Lee Hazelwood and Duane Eddy went tank shopping up around Coolidge, AZ, looking for a tank with a nice echo. I believe they used it when they recorded in Phoenix, however, not New Mexico. That was some great stuff music and the literal tank obviously did the trick.

I remember hearing that Dick Dale initially wanted reverb for his voice, then decided to use it for guitar.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Redfeather wrote:

This isn't the thread I was thinking of but it does discuss the topic and it shows I didn't have it quite right, thought the elusive thread I'm trying to find speculates a truth different than what's represented here as well: https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/1606/?page=1

There’s an old saying: “success has many fathers”. I don’t think anyone is lying, but memories are not always completely reliable. I have a good memory, but I would not trust my memory when it comes to something I recorded. In fact, if I have the opportunity, I will usually label my tracks with the model of guitar I am using.

The Astronauts were on RCA, so they probably had access to good studios and good engineers. Unless someone who had been present were to go on record about it, I would not be surprised by anything having been the case. They could have used their tanks, or the engineers could have added all sorts of magic post prod.

I know that for my recordings, I almost always record dry and add effects afterward. It lends more flexibility and with reampimg tools, you can record dry while monitoring through your effects and amp, then route your dry track through your effects and amp post prod, while preserving your original dry track. I’m sure that a commercial studio in the sixties could have used the same trick.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

psychonaut wrote:

synchro wrote:

The Astronauts were on RCA, so they probably had access to good studios and good engineers. Unless someone who had been present were to go on record about it, I would not be surprised by anything having been the case. They could have used their tanks, or the engineers could have added all sorts of magic post prod.

I wrote about this in another thread, but it's important to note. These days it's so easy to record and manipulate and add whatever effect after the fact, but not so in 1963... The Astronauts were recorded for RCA by Al Schmitt at RCA's studio A. Same room used by Sinatra and his peers. Al Schmitt is extremely old school in his approach and techniques. He doesn't use eq, preferring to move the mic position or change mics to affect tone, and eschews compressors by doing it manually instead. There are pictures of the session and control room so we know the setup and what mics were used (rca 77's), and that they were indeed using their Fender tanks. At the time there was very little you could add to a recording other than limiting and chamber echo or tape delay. There was very little available by way of eq, mainly treble and bass shelving, and Pultec units that were fairly limited in function. In 1963 three track was state of the art and those tracks would be used extremely sparringly if at all, meaning everything was recorded together, with the rhythm section on one track, lead or vocal on the other, and the third track was often used for sweetening such as orchestras choruses, backing vocals and the like. This means everything had to be captured right and balanced correctly in real time, because you couldnt mess with it later as you can now. Knowing this makes that album much more impressive, pretty much what you probably would have heard in the room that day.
Here's a recent interview with Al Schmitt, it's mainly about his career, and although he doesn't mention the Astronauts, he gives a pretty good insight into recording techniques at the time.
https://youtu.be/oEhBQM8l9iM

The tanks are there to see, so there goes any post-prod ideas regarding reverb.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Yeah I think your right - its more than tank reverb on the astronauts records- It has to be chamber reverb as well - If you listen to Live In Japan - The astronauts don't have the drip like on the records - One reason was the guy that played the drip part wouldn't go to Japan because his dad had to be over there during WWII. And he quit the band to go to college as well. But something was lost live - Ok yes one guy left - But - You would think they could get the same drip live or maybe they never could? not sure - I never heard other concert recordings of them.

All they had before Natural Gas Tanks for reverb was Les Pauls Tape delay - it had two heads and depending on where the second head was effected the echo effect - that's what bands did in the 1950's (even on stage)

Les Paul developed that from his sound on sound recorder he used on stage he developed from a German made tape recorder Bing Crosby gave him. He bought a second head where it would record the old recording and new recorded part at the same time (but you tape over the old part lost forever) but he used this on stage in the 1950's - My dad saw one of the first concerts of Les and Mary Ford at the old Warner theater (Big Band Venue) and they where amazing - Les would sound like a full band while his wife sang and played chords etc...

Later he developed the Tape echo from the same basic design. Some you had the rewind but some reversed when tape ran out and recorded it ran backwards. Lot's of 50's Doo Wop bands had guitar slingers using these. But Tape echo couldn't reproduce the large venue reverb. One example is Rock Around The Clock by Bill Halley and the Comets - they recorded that in a Band Shell arena in Boston that was known for its excellent live reverb - That's natural reverb on that record.

The Spring idea came from use a spring pan from a Hammond organ from the late 1950's. Fender had his engineers develop the Tank, but he wanted them to use off the shelf supplies and components to build them with (basically they where trying to emulate large arena reverb) - Hence the small amp taken out of a small fender practice amp - Spring from a Organ etc...It appears that Dick Dale used it first and Dick hanged out with Leo Fender at his boat a lot back then etc ...so it only makes sense he would have been the first to use it - Even The Stratocaster guitar had just been made as well when Dick Dale first met Leo etc ...later Fender used other bands as test guinea pig's etc but I'm pretty sure Dick Dale was the first.

Last edited: Jan 27, 2019 09:49:31

Ariel wrote:

synchro wrote:

The tanks are there to see, so there goes any post-prod ideas regarding reverb.

It doesn't rule it out, either. One theory I read here, was they used echo chamber in addition to the tanks. Crazier things have happened in studios of the era. The one big limiting factor would have been tape media degradation on each cycle of recording, and added noise floor on each bounce.

While I may have digressed to some degree in my post, that is in line with my original intentions. In a studio recording, the sound of the band, the effects, amps and instruments they used are only part of the story. A track could be recorded and then the entire track could have a layer of reverb added. This could interact with the reverb units the band used and the whole might seem greater than the sum of its parts.

My pedalboards are modest, basically reverbs, delays, trems. Both of my boards have at least two reverbs at any time. A lot of the time, I’ll dial up a good springy sound from a Catalinbread Topanga, then add some subtle plate to take the “edge” off the spring sound, and add a little bit of depth.

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

Yeah I think your right - its more than tank reverb on the astronauts records- It has to be chamber reverb as well - If you listen to Live In Japan - The astronauts don't have the drip like on the records - One reason was the guy that played the drip part wouldn't go to Japan because his dad had to be over there during WWII. And he quit the band to go to college as well. But something was lost live - Ok yes one guy left - But - You would think they could get the same drip live or maybe they never could? not sure - I never heard other concert recordings of them.

All they had before Natural Gas Tanks for reverb was Les Pauls Tape delay - it had two heads and depending on where the second head was effected the echo effect - that's what bands did in the 1950's (even on stage)

Les Paul developed that from his sound on sound recorder he used on stage he developed from a German made tape recorder Bing Crosby gave him. He bought a second head where it would record the old recording and new recorded part at the same time (but you tape over the old part lost forever) but he used this on stage in the 1950's - My dad saw one of the first concerts of Les and Mary Ford at the old Warner theater (Big Band Venue) and they where amazing - Les would sound like a full band while his wife sang and played chords etc...

Later he developed the Tape echo from the same basic design. Some you had the rewind but some reversed when tape ran out and recorded it ran backwards. Lot's of 50's Doo Wop bands had guitar slingers using these. But Tape echo couldn't reproduce the large venue reverb. One example is Rock Around The Clock by Bill Halley and the Comets - they recorded that in a Band Shell arena in Boston that was known for its excellent live reverb - That's natural reverb on that record.

The Spring idea came from use a spring pan from a Hammond organ from the late 1950's. Fender had his engineers develop the Tank, but he wanted them to use off the shelf supplies and components to build them with (basically they where trying to emulate large arena reverb) - Hence the small amp taken out of a small fender practice amp - Spring from a Organ etc...It appears that Dick Dale used it first and Dick hanged out with Leo Fender at his boat a lot back then etc ...so it only makes sense he would have been the first to use it - Even The Stratocaster guitar had just been made as well when Dick Dale first met Leo etc ...later Fender used other bands as test guinea pig's etc but I'm pretty sure Dick Dale was the first.

It seems germane at this point to add that tape (and magnetic drum) delay units were used on the eastern shore of the pond much the way that spring reverb was used in the US. Keep in mind, that the original Marshall was basically a ‘59 Bassman made with parts readily available in the U.K. When it came to effects, they were quite a distance from Fullerton, but used both U.K. sourced devices and the Italian Meazzi delay unit.

Hank Marvin, of the Shadows, was a master at creating imaginative echo patterns that he used in much the same way that the American artists used spring reverb. I have a Stanley Blue Nebula, which is a DSP based unit configured to deliver many of Hank Marvin’s echo/delay patterns as preloaded patches. It’s not going to produce a spring reverb sound or emulate the Astronauts’ drip, but it can create some fabulous sounds without any reverb being involved. In fact, at least IMO, adding reverb would detract from the overall sound.

Reverb isn’t echo, it’s a byproduct of echo. It’s almost like an aftertaste of echo. I learned a lot by watching Just Hank Marvin on YouTube.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Redfeather wrote:

I just realized something about the Misirlou reverb question.

The version most commonly known is not the version that was originally on Surfer's Choice. The original album version from November 1962 is "Misirlou Twist" and pretty clearly does not have reverb on it, just as Dick says.

The version everyone thinks of--the one on Pulp Fiction--was apparently only released as a single (B side "Eight Till Midnight"),in April 1962. So before the album and it clearly does have reverb on it but was it recorded before or after the version on the album..?

Makes sense.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.