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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Best tubes for surf?

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DeathTide wrote:

DeathTide wrote:
Yes on rebiasing.....Well, all Dick Dale would’ve used were RCAs and they sound great!

Way, way back in the early sixties when Dick, me and probably a plethora of other musicians needed tubes we would go to a local drug store, head to the tube tester, check our tubes and if they did not register as the manual required buy whatever brand the store carried: RCA, Phillps, GE, etc.

No one knew what the hell biasing was about: we just replaced our tubes and played. I haven't replaced the tubes in my 61 Showman in 25 years and the amp is just as loud and clear as any other Showman or Twin I have heard. My trannies did not burn up because I failed to rebias it.

Dick now uses tubes that he gets from Ruby, some Chinese, some Russian because of the costs to buy NOS. Does his amp sound much different than when RCA or whatever brand tubes were in in amp in the day?

Just an opinion from an old fart, but do what make you feel right.

ArabSpringReverb wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/Tube-Amp-Book-Deluxe-Revised/dp/0879307676
This book is a little pricey but there's a ton of info about tube amps and tubes for those amps ,the why and where of it all . And info about current production tubes for use in vintage amps . The prices on NOS tubes from the 60s are outta my league so I have my amp tech use whatever he thinks will sound best at a reasonable price . Im pretty sure I have JJs in most of my amps by now . My Park head has a complete set of Groove Tubes . I tell them what sound I want and let the experts recommend something , so far so good .
Maybe you can make an appointment with the amp guy close to you , play the amp until then , look at online tube suppliers and pick some to bring with you . Rebiasing shouldnt take very long unless you have other issues . Play with the preamp tubes all you want , no rebiasing needed . and dont forget the phase inverter tube !

Shameless plug: my wife has my copy of The Tube Amp Book up on Ebay currently. Full disclosure: I'm an electronics idiot (even after working at Intel for 31 years...) and totally rely on my amp tech :) He recently put a matched set of JJ 6L6GCs in my Silverface Twin Reverb, after I stupidly bought four expensive unmatched NOS RCAs, and it sounds great. Still heavy as sin though.

Rick

I recall the Tube-Amp Book was written by Aspen Pittman and further recall he owns, or owned Groove Tubes, tubes that were manufactured in China and Russia. I recall a dozen years ago he got his hands on some Phillips NOS and peddled them. He got his hands on SOVTEK (maybe misspelled) tubes and put his GT brand on them.

Of course he is going to push tubes and biasing. I'm not buying the voodoo biasing theory. I know a dozen musicians from the sixties who are of the same opinion.

In my opinion, the biasing is akin to what guitar sounds better and was made with better quality: my 61 Strat v someones MIM, MIJ or wherever it was made.

Wood is wood; steel is steel; alnico is alnico. It does not take a degree in rocket science to assemble a guitar using those elements.

More Fun With Tubes! I've played the game as well, sometimes the difference with vintage tubes is noticeable, some times it's not. I've also seen Fender amps that sound pretty much the same as they ever did with the original 50 years old tubes. I also remember the drugstore tube tester and display, said displays being the jackpot of tube collectors.

tubeswell wrote:

. . . But don’t discard all modern production tubes without trying them. Some of them can be very good. All tubes exhibit variability to some extent. Even with NOS you can get dud ones. The only way to decide whether you like a tube is to plug it in and see. You can’t do that if you don’t have them.

Much agreed. I bought a set of the new production Groove Tube 6L6s a while back and ended up with a perfectly matched quad which sound great in my Twin.

Vintage NOS tubes are no guarantee of greatness. Many of the surviving NOS tubes may we’ll be there because they were rejected back in the day, when techs had huge assortments of tubes above their workbenches and used whichever tube worked best. I remember watching a friend, who was a tech employed by RCA, and he would mix and match from the rack of new tubes above his bench. Actually, I have seen this more than once. I always wondered whatever happened to the new tubes which were tried and rejected. Did they get purged from the system, or are these the surviving NOS tubes which are for sale today?

I’ve had good luck with new production tubes. I use 12AY7s up front in many amps and usually buy ElectroHarmonix tubes for this. I’ve used JJ 6V6s with consistent success, too. There are no perfect answers, but I wouldn’t break the bank just to get NOS tubes.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I really don’t want to knock NOS tubes, but I feel like if you look at the amp, speakers, and tubes then the fact that the tubes are new or old make the least amount of difference. I have some amps with NOS tubes just because that’s what came in them when I got the amps, and I’ve never had the desire to put NOS tubes in my other amps. Just get a decent quality tube that won’t go crazy on you while you are playing out and you should be good. I’ve always had good luck with JJs in my British and American Voices amps alike. They rarely go microphonic on me, and I’ve never had a one of their power tubes blow.

Guitarist for Wolfhand and The Donner Beach Party.

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 14:14:21

How would you go about testing a tube to find out if it's good or not, or even how much life it has left? That is, if you don't have the right amp to put it in.

I'm asking because there's a boxed tube at my parents' house - an RCA 6L6, which appears to be a spare for a jukebox we have in the den. My grandfather ran a busy renting out and servicing jukeboxes, pool tables, and amusement machines, so we ended up with some of those things in our house. There could be more spares sitting around somewhere in the house, and they would have date to the 60's or early 70's. If I found more, I'd prefer to sell them to someone who would use them, but I'd like to make sure they are good beforehand.

Tqi wrote:

I'm building my amp with NOS tubes because I could get a box of fifty and mix and match the best ones, for less than it would cost to buy the six tubes I need for my pre-amp from a modern manufacturer.

<<<<<<< Not a tube snob.

I don’t think anyone would argue with that hahaha

Guitarist for Wolfhand and The Donner Beach Party.

IMHO Power tubes make a huge difference. I have some vint RCA blackplates that sound killer. Check out TAD short bottle 6L6. They are pretty spot on recreations. They also make a Tall 6L6 that is more grey plate flavor and have more headroom. In my Showman I like the Talls. Lots of clean power. Check em out.

Give me reverb or give me death!
facebook.com/onenightstandards
https://www.youtube.com/scotstandard
scotstandard@yahoo.com

Stratdancer, the 5751 will give you a little more clarity but not likely what you are looking for. The nature of the amp in that environment.

Pipeline, for sure. Just watch out for the reef.

Ya know what I think? I don't think anyone could pass a blindfold test on the different tubes available. I think it's all psychological.

Last edited: Mar 03, 2020 21:09:47

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Last edited: Mar 03, 2022 06:20:28

dickey wrote:

Ya know what I think? I don't think anyone could pass a blindfold test on the different tubes available. I think it's all psychological.

This is exactly what someone who can’t hear the difference would say.

Daniel Deathtide

DeathTide wrote:

This is exactly what someone who can’t hear the difference would say.

Tide,
Whoa! Meow!! (JK-referring to your picture). My take, I think I'd notice the difference in my amp only, just because I'm aware of the nuances and have played, recorded and loved it for so many years.

I don't think my ear is trained enough to hear the difference between to similar sounding tubes, but I can tell when something is off.

Surfcat

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Surfin’ Europe - Surf gigs in Europe
The Malbehavers – Instrumental Surf Music from Tilburg (NL)

That looks like a fun "tube" to surf on! Water is a beautiful color!

Surfcat

2023 SG101 Compilation - Tribute to Noel
The Journey Home - Agent Octopus (Our SG101 Comp download)

From Atlantis with Love - Released - July 2023
Agent Octopus-Spotify
Christmas on the Beach - NEW SINGLE Dec 2023!!
Reverb Galaxy - Angle of Attack CD - BANDCAMP

Surf, the most dangerous of all musical genres...

I’ll mention two scenarios where tubes made an audible difference, but not necessarily in the way you might think.

One was my Twin. The OEM tubes tested well, but were not all that well balanced as a set. New production tubes in a well balanced quartet and the amp sounded much better. My DRRI was biased a bit cold from the factory. One little tweak and they were much better. Either was noticeable, but neither was because of bad tubes, low quality tubes or what have you.

Simply stated, the improvement one hears from re-tubing might not be simply a matter of better tubes, but could be better balance between tubes or a matter of biasing.

It’s like vitamins. Now, if you are deficient in a certain vitamin, it can cause problems and these will be alleviated if you take a supplement. However, if you take supplements without a deficiency, all you will end up with is vitamin-rich urine. If the body doesn’t need a supplement, then it will not help you. If tubes are deficient, yes, better tubes will help, but if the tubes are ok, your pouring money down the drain.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Heh. I was speaking tongue-in-cheek. I think the preamp tubes make a difference, and in my (very) limited experience not so much power tubes. I swapped a set of JJs for a set of NOS RCA 6L6GCs (from Brent’s) and I honestly heard no difference. Then I swapped some preamp tubes and it changed a bit, a little. Brighter but in a rich non-screechy way. This was in a SFTR. The best sounding blackface Twin I’ve got (out of three) has Groove Tubes!

I really didn’t have much of an idea about this stuff before, but now I don’t really feel the need to shell out big bucks for power tubes. I love having a tiny cache of old preamp tubes.

One thing many do say which I believe are a benefit to NOS tunes, is that they will most likely last much longer, especially if they are actual NOS tubes.

Daniel Deathtide

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