ArtS
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 1252
Isle of Kent, MD
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Posted on Mar 22 2018 08:12 AM
Nice relaxing video... like the embellishments on guitar. Percussion fits the vibe well.
Nothing like starting the day off with the Sandals...
We've found a lot of drummers like the change of pace playing congas,bongos etc...
Smaller kit, smaller amps, good way to go.
— Surfcat
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Surf, the most dangerous of all musical genres...
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JohnnyMosrite
Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 858
New York City area
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Posted on Mar 22 2018 11:19 AM
Chadshivers,
I can't speak to how things work in Atlanta, but up here in New York:
"If it's too loud... then your'e too damn old".
I've had my share if gigs where I had to dial down to a thin volume set at 2, 3 or 4 - and good drummers got the same hassle. Gigs like that turn out to be more headache than they are worth. I guess my desire to play out regardless of less than musically conducive surroundings isn't as robust as some other players - i.e. if it's going to be a half-assed hassle, why bother?
As the years have elapsed, I just suffer fools way less than I use to.. and that wasn't ever so great to begin with.
My two cents..
J Mo'
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matt
Joined: Oct 18, 2010
Posts: 637
Boston, MA
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Posted on Mar 22 2018 12:53 PM
I think it comes down to the rooms you want to play (or can reasonably expect to play). I'm in Boston, and I'm a fan of getting paid, which seems to mean some of the smaller bars & brewpubs where there's no cover, you are just the music that happens to be there. I kind of like that, since it takes a lot of the promo pressure off, and you play for a lot of new people. But of course, you can't be too loud. When we play straight up rock rooms, we can play as loudly as we want, but there's often not a good crowd, and we walk away with no or negative money (I pay my guys out of pocket).
I'm going to ask our drummer about different kind of sticks, maybe the bamboo things will make a happy medium. (If you're in Boston, we'll be at the Aeronaut brewery next Saturday the 31st! see how it all works out...)
thanks gang!
— Matt Heaton & the Electric Heaters
"Dick Dale meets Dennis Lehane"
http://www.heatonsurf.com
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casey
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 520
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 04:50 AM
Thanks for the nice comments ArtS. And I tent to agree with Matt, if you are paying us and want a low volume we'll do our best to play that way. Not every venue is appropriate for being as loud as we'd like. I work in a hospital and they have live music once a month in the lobby. Usually they had jazz combos but with our hand percussion and small amps we have been asked back a number of times. They like our music but really appreciate that we keep the volume down. Even here I can play with a couple pf Super Reverbs as it is a large room. Then if we are playing say an outdoor pool party I can use the two Super Reverbs and turn up. I've found it is much harder to achieve a good overall sound at low volumes and think that it improves your musicianship.
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 06:58 AM
it is not easy to control the overall volume of the band if your drummer is real loud ,the best way to avoid that is to convert him to electronic drum that way you can set up it low and ajust your overall volume to the place
or try to make him have a little kit who doesn't ring loud (there is cymbale with hole on market for quiet playing and with a smaller kit it will be less loud
the second alternative will be more loud but less than a big kit with normal cymbale and surely more pleaser to play to your drummer (mine doesn't love electronic drum cause it doen't have the feel of real drum)
i heard difference in bass drum du to size a 22 is more loud than a 18 for example plus you can also mute them to have less sound and the quiet the drummer is the more quiet the band will be ,cause if not if you want to ear you you need to push the volume up ,also the work of fréquency help to be heard without pushing up the volume ,for example i have my guitar sound and if the bass is on my frequency it need more watt to be ear rather than just equal it at other frequency (more bass for example ) the 2 sound are clearer and don't need to be push up
then if you want to play less loud for place where they find you are too loud ,you have to ask your drummer to bring a little kit quieter then the overall sound will be appropriate to the place (not maybe to his tastes but the tastes of the public of the place )
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Clarry
Joined: Oct 01, 2014
Posts: 519
Streatham, London
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 07:08 AM
I bought some ear-plugs for our rehearsals, and tried them out yesterday.
I could hear bass, drums and vocals very well, but not the guitars much. So I took them out. I also recorded on a Zoom recorder….listening back, the instruments all sound fine, but the vocals are way at the back.
Either we don’t play too loud, which is good, or I rammed the earplugs in to far…
Our drummer (non-surf) has been complimented on his abilty to play with a range of dynamics a few times. Certainly helps when you do need to get “dramatic”.
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3732
tn
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 10:56 AM
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 11:14 AM
ear plug for me are obligatory cause at rehearsale we have some db meter and we play at 100 db ,the drummer alone is 96 db and with bass and guitar 100 db ,we try to be more quiet cause in the beguining we were more loud (too much cause we approch the 110 db or more) now we are more careful and we try to not play too much loud ,i ll be very happy to avoid ear plug but there too much volume to ear safe in this context
the overall volume is done by the drummer i can play less loud but i also need to ear me then with the drummer at 96 db i need to open the amp for (my deluxe reverb haven't enought power for cause it was past four of volume and beguin to crunch in a bad way ,lot of hight who made ear bleed without presence ,now i have more powerfull amp and i am not more loud in fact to ear me well but my sound is more pleasant and without the hight pick )
at the rehearsale the guys says we are loud (surf ! lol) cause our music is very dynamics ,some metal band are less loud than us ,if my drummer can play more quiet the band volume will be more quiet too
for information more than 90 db in continu you have ear loss(maybe less in fact long time i have look at ) and we rehearsale for 3 hours
without ear plug past the first hour you are ear tired ,depend also of you ,some guys have better acceptance of level
for the blasphemy of electric drum ,in France the law for live are real pain for the place to play like bar,pub ,all the non concert venue du to neighbour and Police if at the door you are more than 100 db ,the owner have some contravention with the risk of being closed for fews days ,then some bars will make you play really quiet and sometimes without an electric drums you can't play here
Last edited: Mar 23, 2018 11:24:31
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derekirving
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Posts: 658
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 12:20 PM
This is a challenge for all bands playing local brew pubs and smaller clubs. Volume at these places have come way down, so bands need to adjust otherwise you'll lose the gig. Everyone needs to come down, smaller amps (Princeton/Deluxe reverbs, etc or dare I say modeling) and a lighter-handed drummer or drums that don't project as much. You'll need a band that can accommodate this. If there's a vocalist in the band, then they will appreciate the lower stage volume. If a band/musician wants to keep gigging/working they will need to adapt. If they don't someone behind them who has adapted; will take the gig. I'm going through this too, my drummer is pretty moderate, I'm now looking to replace my 59 reissue tweed bassman with a Princeton Reverb and in-ear monitors for vocals. As a bandleader, I know I need to do this to keep the gigs I have and to continue to work. One exception would be if you have a strong fan base where you'll filling up smaller clubs with 100 + people paying a door charge to see you - in this instance the club "maybe" a bit more forgiving (assuming they can hear drink orders and make a bunch selling drinks) - be even in this case volume should be tuned to the room. The days of big amps and turning up loud are over for the average club or bar.
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ArtS
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 1252
Isle of Kent, MD
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 12:25 PM
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matt
Joined: Oct 18, 2010
Posts: 637
Boston, MA
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Posted on Mar 23 2018 02:53 PM
Fortunately I'm sorted for amps. I've got a quilter micropro 8" and I just got a ZT lunchbox JR. I don't think I could actually do a band gig with the ZT, but man, it's close. that thing is amazing for a 6" box. I like the idea of the bringing a reverb tank that's 3x as big as the amp...
— Matt Heaton & the Electric Heaters
"Dick Dale meets Dennis Lehane"
http://www.heatonsurf.com
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4129
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Mar 27 2018 04:52 PM
casey wrote:
Lot's of great advice. I have had the same problem with our drummer, he has started using special (nylon, bamboo?) sticks when low volume is needed and it helps a lot. He also purchased a set of congas and bongos and uses these on certain indoor jobs where moderate volume is needed. These work OK, different sound than a full drum set but let us play in venues where we couldn't otherwise. And smaller (Princeton Reverb or similar) sized amps keep everything in balance.
Beautiful!
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4129
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Mar 27 2018 05:17 PM
derekirving wrote:
This is a challenge for all bands playing local brew pubs and smaller clubs. Volume at these places have come way down, so bands need to adjust otherwise you'll lose the gig. Everyone needs to come down, smaller amps (Princeton/Deluxe reverbs, etc or dare I say modeling) and a lighter-handed drummer or drums that don't project as much. You'll need a band that can accommodate this. If there's a vocalist in the band, then they will appreciate the lower stage volume. If a band/musician wants to keep gigging/working they will need to adapt. If they don't someone behind them who has adapted; will take the gig. I'm going through this too, my drummer is pretty moderate, I'm now looking to replace my 59 reissue tweed bassman with a Princeton Reverb and in-ear monitors for vocals. As a bandleader, I know I need to do this to keep the gigs I have and to continue to work. One exception would be if you have a strong fan base where you'll filling up smaller clubs with 100 + people paying a door charge to see you - in this instance the club "maybe" a bit more forgiving (assuming they can hear drink orders and make a bunch selling drinks) - be even in this case volume should be tuned to the room. The days of big amps and turning up loud are over for the average club or bar.
Too much volume can really harm your reputation as a band. I've known of bands that lost good gigs because of not controlling their volume. A number of years ago, I played with an incredibly loud drummer on several occasions and eventually refused to work with him anymore. His excuse was that he needed that volume to increase his dynamic range, but he never played soft, so that was just an excuse.
Volume should be appropriate to the situation. If you are Dick Dale playing the Rendezvous, that is one thing, but few of us are playing such venues. We've played in Veteran's Hospitals and RV Park community buildings and these people want lower volumes. It's their call.
One of the best situations I ever had was playing a club with a good soundman and PA. Our stage volume would have worked in a living room, but the PA made certain that we filled the venue. I listened to the next band in the lineup and it was a pleasure. Loud enough to hear all the details, but not so loud as to be fatiguing.
casey wrote:
Thanks for the nice comments ArtS. And I tent to agree with Matt, if you are paying us and want a low volume we'll do our best to play that way. Not every venue is appropriate for being as loud as we'd like. I work in a hospital and they have live music once a month in the lobby. Usually they had jazz combos but with our hand percussion and small amps we have been asked back a number of times. They like our music but really appreciate that we keep the volume down. Even here I can play with a couple pf Super Reverbs as it is a large room. Then if we are playing say an outdoor pool party I can use the two Super Reverbs and turn up. I've found it is much harder to achieve a good overall sound at low volumes and think that it improves your musicianship.
Good points. If you are being paid to play, the venue gets to have its way. If they want you quiet, give them quiet. If you can't handle quiet, give up the gig. The congas and bongos sound great. I'm hoping to buy some myself.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy turning up enough to let the amp sing and to have fun playing the electric guitar for all it's worth, but that doesn't have to mean ear-splitting volume. In fact, if the volume becomes ear-splitting, I'm ready to bail. My ears are quite healthy and I intend to keep them that way.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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dragonsurfer
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 128
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Posted on Mar 28 2018 07:27 AM
matt wrote:
I HATE turning around and saying "um, can you keep it down" to the drummer, who sounds great, just loud.
The drum volume is something that needs to be contained in order for a band to turn down. As suggested in the other posts, using plexiglas shields or in the case of some COGIC church bands, they build a room/booth for the drummer to keep the volume down is a usual remedy.
Since you like your drummer have you tried him with a smaller sized kit? Instead of a 13" tom go with a 10" and use the larger toms for the lower note units.
Low volume drum heads will decrease volume and lower volume cymbals to go along with the package might help tame a drummer who has no control.
Remo makes Silentstroke heads that still make a "tone."
But dynamic control is the better way and this is something the drummer has to learn or be naturally gifted with.
Since gigs are your goal, and you want to keep the drummer, the kit needs to change. Don't imagine you'll be wanting to carry around an iso booth for your drummer to your gig.
Artistic expression in a club venue not properly designed for a loud band, the artist needs to do the adjustment as the club manager won't.
If the drummer likes to be BammBamm he's going to need some help.
Otherwise get an electronic set and he can beat the snot out of that while a volume control will be your friend.
Last edited: Mar 29, 2018 11:20:07
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martianspy
Joined: Aug 09, 2009
Posts: 70
Cape Cod
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Posted on Mar 28 2018 07:09 PM
Light 7A sticks are a nice compromise if your drummer doesn't want to to use bundled sticks. They are more popular with jazz guys, but it's hard for any drummer to hit too heavy with them. They actually let you play a little faster without the weight constraints of a normal rock stick. I think the drummer in the nebulas uses them.
http://vicfirth.com/products/drum-sticks/american-classic/7a/
If he's got a metal snare, controlling some of the ring can help. A little wad of paper towel taped onto the drum head can be a temporary muffler. Tightening the cymbals down will keep them rininging too much too. All is a compromise to the sound, but it may help.
Last edited: Mar 28, 2018 19:09:35
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matt
Joined: Oct 18, 2010
Posts: 637
Boston, MA
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Posted on Mar 29 2018 10:15 AM
well, we've got a gig on Saturday, so we'll see how it goes!
— Matt Heaton & the Electric Heaters
"Dick Dale meets Dennis Lehane"
http://www.heatonsurf.com
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3743
North Atlantic
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Posted on Mar 29 2018 11:13 AM
Have a great gig! I played a show where one of the guitarist player a ZT stack, and he was louder than all of us. I was amazed with the amount of volume it put out. Plus he carried them to the gig in his back pack. Here's a video from the show. He's the guy in the striped shirt playing the tele.
Rev
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
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matt
Joined: Oct 18, 2010
Posts: 637
Boston, MA
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Posted on Mar 29 2018 01:17 PM
I actually have a ZT Lunchbox JR which is an amazing amp. One of my favorite features is it has a 9V out so you can run a pedal or two from the amp itself.
and wow! people are actually dancing!
— Matt Heaton & the Electric Heaters
"Dick Dale meets Dennis Lehane"
http://www.heatonsurf.com
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Tqi
Joined: Dec 07, 2014
Posts: 1222
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Posted on Mar 29 2018 06:53 PM
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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 13:20:52
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