Quite awhile back I recorded the delay periods of an old analog delay I've had since early 80's. It would be "nice" to have the free time to do that with my El Capistan echo unit but there are so many variables that it might take the time I have left on the planet.

I think it depends on what you have available and what you're going for. Speaking only about my use of the El Cap, I keep a Favorite setting that is kind of a generic echoplex type sound. Comparing the time to my old analog notes I see the time is about 260ms, with 3 repeats, but they are quickly fading & the 3rd is almost imagined it's so faint. One can go longer; the thing to do with an El Cap (among others) is manage the low-end contour & tape bias settings (hidden variables under 2 knobs) so that the repeats don't get in the way of the notes following.

It also has several different machines you can attempt to replicate through switch settings, and those yield different tonal characteristics. If something is supposed to have some lovely Shadowy-muted stuff or some moody legato lines it also helps to roll back the mix on the reverb tank, and for that it's going to be in a multi-tap setting simulating yet another machine, say Echolette or Echorec if you know what they sound like. Again, managing the tone of those things with other controls comes into play. Not meant to be a review of any particular device, but that's a couple of the considerations I use when approaching it.

It really comes down to what do you have, what are you chasing and is this something you're looking for as a general sound, or is it song-specific?

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Trying to play Space Cossacks style stuff) got a row of delays plus Zoom MS-70 cdr with some 20 more delays. No way(

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Here be some precious insights by Ivan, from the Ancient Winds thread (there's more there) -

Seriously, I'd love to know how do you approach timing? By feel or simply sticking with the tempo?

IvanP wrote:
It's all completely by feel. Like I said above, the echo tempo I use for almost all songs is already programmed into both the Korg and the Strymon pedals, so I rarely even think about it. (Come to think of it, I believe the longer echo I programmed into the Korg way back in '98 emulated the longer echo - from a Klemt Echolette - you can hear on some Atlantics songs. Not 100% about that, but that's my memory. They usually used a shorter echo settings with a bunch of very loud repeat but on some songs you can hear a longer echo. And ever since then I've stuck with that setting. I think it's about 400 ms.) Somehow that programmed setting works for pretty much all the songs, even if the tempo may not completely match it. I can't completely explain it why, but it's best not to question or overanalyze these things! Smile

Does the delay usually go into the Vox, or just in those Atlantics type songs?

The echo always goes into both amps. When recording with the Korg pedal I always used a splitter box after the echo, before going into the reverb units. The Strymon has stereo outputs so I used those, didn't need a splitter box.

Where's the reverb in all that?

I used two reverb units, one for each amp, and then seasoned the reverb to taste. When recording I tweak the reverb units a lot more than I do the echo pedal. For the Vox, I'll usually keep the reverb pretty low, since I'm using it for a particular tone which usually is not about reverb, but is more in the Shadows/Atlantics vein.

One exception to using reverb units on each amp on this last album: on the Atlantics' cover Coral Island I didn't use the reverb units at all. But I did use two amps: the '62 Bandmaster through a 2x12 cab (with EVs) and the '01 Vox AC-30 to capture the tones of both the Atlantics' '63 (Bandmaster) and '64-'65 (AC-30) lead guitar sounds. I also used those two amps for The Argonaut, but I did use some reverb on both amps, just a touch to give the sounds a bit more aggression and atmosphere. And then I used both the Strymon on the short, staggered repeats setting to emulate the unique Echolette sound as well as a longer single repeat from my Line 6 Echo Park pedal - the Atlantics used that double-echo setup on several songs, most notably War of the Worlds and SOS (Stomp on Stomp) (one other, but I can't think of it now). So, that's what I went for on that song - total echo overkill! I could have used my actual Echolette (which I did use on a few songs on Carpe Noctem), but that thing has a very loud hiss, and it's a PITA to maintain and make sure it works correctly. There was no time to waste in the studio, so I went with the more convenient option.

Last edited: Nov 08, 2017 08:24:29

Go to this manual for the Stanley FX Baby Blue echo pedal.

Scroll down and there are the millisecond timings they've given for some old tape echoes with decibels etc. Scroll further down and it tells you the sort of Shadows songs the settings have. I managed to create a passable "Apache" in my Zoom MS70 with a string of the Tape Echo unit using these tables.

StanleyFX

It might give you a good starting point to build on.

Last edited: Nov 08, 2017 10:27:42

Badger wrote:

Quite awhile back I recorded the delay periods of an old analog delay I've had since early 80's. It would be "nice" to have the free time to do that with my El Capistan echo unit but there are so many variables that it might take the time I have left on the planet.

I think it depends on what you have available and what you're going for. Speaking only about my use of the El Cap, I keep a Favorite setting that is kind of a generic echoplex type sound. Comparing the time to my old analog notes I see the time is about 260ms, with 3 repeats, but they are quickly fading & the 3rd is almost imagined it's so faint. One can go longer; the thing to do with an El Cap (among others) is manage the low-end contour & tape bias settings (hidden variables under 2 knobs) so that the repeats don't get in the way of the notes following.

It also has several different machines you can attempt to replicate through switch settings, and those yield different tonal characteristics. If something is supposed to have some lovely Shadowy-muted stuff or some moody legato lines it also helps to roll back the mix on the reverb tank, and for that it's going to be in a multi-tap setting simulating yet another machine, say Echolette or Echorec if you know what they sound like. Again, managing the tone of those things with other controls comes into play. Not meant to be a review of any particular device, but that's a couple of the considerations I use when approaching it.

It really comes down to what do you have, what are you chasing and is this something you're looking for as a general sound, or is it song-specific?

Thanks for the interesting thoughts! I guess I am looking for a general sound improvement although I mostly happy with my sound now (booster-overdrive-reverb/tremolo). But listening to some bands or players (like Ivan from The Madeira) and trying to nail the sound (cause it's great!!!) I came across the info that delay is the important part of this sound together with reverb. I trued a row of delays in different settings - but no way to come even close) That's the question!

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Badger wrote:

Yes, as Crazy Aces would say "Ahh, the tone of the Quest, the Quest for The Tone."

For all the wonderfulness that Ivan can homogenize in the studio, he can still plug into a Surfer or Showman with a tank & delay (or even someone else's Hot Rod Deville on a swaying boat) and make it work live. So you might want to give yourself some leeway before beating yourself up; keep plugging at it.

You’re right man, building your own tone is a quest) and nailing somebody else’s tones is a part of it)

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin