Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19253
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 08:24 AM
Serpico
Brian
But serpico, what is it about the 4th wave that distinguishes it from the 3rd? Other than the passage of time?
isnt that enough?
Not to me. That would not be very useful because there would be, after a passage of time, 10 or 20 waves, and if there wasn't anything different about them musically or numbers-wise, etc, what's the point of classifying them that way? 
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 09:08 AM
as for my region, Id say, 3th wave is petty much over, 4th wave is not in sight. sad but true.
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
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Serpico
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 443
Falun Sweden
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 11:55 AM
Brian
Serpico
Brian
But serpico, what is it about the 4th wave that distinguishes it from the 3rd? Other than the passage of time?
isnt that enough?
Not to me. That would not be very useful because there would be, after a passage of time, 10 or 20 waves, and if there wasn't anything different about them musically or numbers-wise, etc, what's the point of classifying them that way?
well a wave is a wave..even if they look alike they still are waves..
— The reality is that we do not wash our own laundry - it just gets dirtier.
www.myspace.com/tumbleweedofsurf
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MikeG
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 309
Springfield, Oregon
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 12:02 PM
We never stopped riding the third wave, the outer reef break just petered out a little but it's gathering steam for a wicked shorebreak.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19253
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 12:25 PM
Well, Serpico you are proof of a 4th wave. Influenced by 3rd wave bands without much knowledge of the 1st and 2nd wave. Hopefully you'll pick up some stuff here. ;)
Now excuse me while I chase some kids off my lawn.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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Serpico
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 443
Falun Sweden
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 01:28 PM
Brian
Well, Serpico you are proof of a 4th wave. Influenced by 3rd wave bands without much knowledge of the 1st and 2nd wave. Hopefully you'll pick up some stuff here. ;)
Now excuse me while I chase some kids off my lawn.
(not sure if you are being ironic here...i hope you are not..)
Thanks Brian i have pick up pretty much already i think.. this place is AWESOME! Good luck with the "kidchasingbusiness".
oh did you get my PM btw?
— The reality is that we do not wash our own laundry - it just gets dirtier.
www.myspace.com/tumbleweedofsurf
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surfer
Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 428
South Florida
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 01:56 PM
How 'bout 3rd wave overhead or 4th knee to chest, big swells tomorrow.
— www.cutbacksurfband.com
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TFJ
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 278
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 02:28 PM
Brian
Now excuse me while I chase some kids off my lawn.
What are you going to do when you catch them?
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John
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 593
Monterey County, California
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Posted on Feb 22 2008 09:27 PM
Y'know, I think it might be enough to simply have a "first wave" and a "second wave." It was a dry, relatively reverbless period between the first two. Since 1980, however, there really haven't been any dry spells at all, just "wetter" periods than others, n'est pas?
— www.johnblair.us
www.soundofthesurf.com
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bIG_wAvE_Dave
Joined: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 365
Reno, NV
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Posted on Feb 23 2008 07:46 PM
The 2nd Wave deserves BIG TIME credit as the "archeologists" of the Surf genre. Had this not occurred, we might not be here today. The modern period DOES have pretty much continuous lineage from that period. Even though 2nd Wave band numbers were relatively few, and did not have the awareness and magnitude to build the community we have today, their impact was key --- NEW bands! Not oldies or 1st Wave acts trying to ride the hits of a previous period. They started the re-exploration into what otherwise was considered a "truncated" genre in the music world and pop consciousness.
Although, many of those 2nd Wave bands spent time re-covering "forgotten" songs to create recognition, they had the guts to shred on new material. Good aircover for this was the relatively experiment period in pop/punk rock and New Wave going on at the time. When I heard The B'52s infuse Mosrite Surf guitar into dancable rock, I freaked Yeah! When I heard J&TN, Surfraiders, The Halibuts, Untamed Youth, I said wow, there's the same energy and fun here as The Ramones!
With respect to waves, IMHO 2 and 3 definitely overlapped, but my criteria remains the surge in bands, public/club interest much of which propelled by Pulp Fiction. However, looking very close at the dynamics of the times, the 3rd Wave was already underway and would have broke big anyways w/o PF, possibly taking just a bit longer. The early 3rd Wave bands busted open the club scene (esp here in San Fran) without the help of Pulp Fiction and represented an alternative to pure punk and grunge which in the late 80s was already bouncing the rubble. 3rd Wave Surf Rock was a TRUE alternative rock form to what was happening then and so both band creativity and fan interest were very high by the early 90's. The 3rd Wave would have happened anyways in my opinion, possibly without a defining moment like PF, but fueled by the likes of Bob Dalley's mailing list for awareness of new Surf releases, Cowabunga, new experimental and LIVE bands like Mermen, Pollo, Insects, Phantom Surfers, J&Cedrics, Woodies and Phil Dirt/regional local Surf radio shows. It would have grown from there. Glad it happened even faster with the PF ass-kick!
And so, Thank You, 2nd Wave!
Gotta love these anal posts 
-bIG wAvE Dave
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mournblade
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 328
central Pennsylvania
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Posted on Feb 23 2008 08:45 PM
PolloGuitar
A true merging of trad-surf and punk makes the music a lot harder and harsher. Any remnant of thirdwave sonic experimentation is gone. A return to the basic tools of the originals, but the songs are faster and deadlier.
FWIW--
--ferenc
Yawn. I cringe every time I hear the term, "merged with punk." It
sounds so. . . so base, and that's NOT a good thing. I remember
reading an interview with one of the members of The Amazing Royal
Crowns, and they said they weren't rockabilly, but rather, punk mixed
with rockabilly.
Sure, whatever. Mediocrity mixed with rockabilly, is what I think he
meant.
To be honest, I'm not even sure what "punk" means in this day and age,
especially when every other teenager is claiming to be "punk." I mean,
is Green Day really punk? What does that even mean???
Regardless, punk's usefulness is done and past. Punk is dead.
Surf is not.
Vince
— Is this something you can share with the rest of us, Amazing Larry?!?
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11041
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Feb 23 2008 09:00 PM
I think it's valid to say punk has it's impact on some surf bands, which not the same as merging the two into a hybrid genre. I grew up listening and playing the old school punk and I've built my personal musicality on that foundation. If I had to pinpoint the biggest impact punk rock had on me, it's that you can 'rock' without playing 'rawk'. In other words, it freed me from blues based/riff oriented songs. Punk always had cool chord progressions, it was just devoid of melody. Surf puts back the melody.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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mournblade
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 328
central Pennsylvania
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Posted on Feb 23 2008 09:07 PM
DannySnyder
I think it's valid to say punk has it's impact on some surf bands, which not the same as merging the two into a hybrid genre. I grew up listening and playing the old school punk and I've built my personal musicality on that foundation. If I had to pinpoint the biggest impact punk rock had on me, it's that you can 'rock' without playing 'rawk'. In other words, it freed me from blues based/riff oriented songs. Punk always had cool chord progressions, it was just devoid of melody. Surf puts back the melody.
Well, there was the Dead Kennedys, that's true. Nifty chord progressions
AND melodic. Oddly, though, East Bay Ray claims that he wasn't
influenced by surf at all.
But the DKs are the exception, imho.
Vince
— Is this something you can share with the rest of us, Amazing Larry?!?
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Serpico
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 443
Falun Sweden
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Posted on Feb 23 2008 09:20 PM
just listen to the Ramones..they just reeks of Ventures smelling melodies and chordsprogressions..
if you dont believe me just listen to The Ramonetures...Cheers..
— The reality is that we do not wash our own laundry - it just gets dirtier.
www.myspace.com/tumbleweedofsurf
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Ruhar
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
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Posted on Feb 24 2008 11:52 AM
DannySnyder
I think it's valid to say punk has it's impact on some surf bands, which not the same as merging the two into a hybrid genre. I grew up listening and playing the old school punk and I've built my personal musicality on that foundation. If I had to pinpoint the biggest impact punk rock had on me, it's that you can 'rock' without playing 'rawk'. In other words, it freed me from blues based/riff oriented songs.
Very well said Danny. Me too. If it wasn't for punk, I probably wouldn't have found my way to surf. That's for sure.
— Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11041
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Feb 24 2008 12:07 PM
Serpico
just listen to the Ramones..they just reeks of Ventures smelling melodies and chordsprogressions..
if you dont believe me just listen to The Ramonetures...Cheers..
Fine. I retract the word 'devoid' and replace it with 'limited'.
I think most of us who've written instro songs realize it is far more demanding to write the melody for guitar than it is to just sing or shout some words. That's why very few songs crossover well from the vocal world, as has been discussed in other threads. I submit that most Ramones' songs, or my faves Buzzcocks, while melodic for punk, don't cut it when transferred onto a guitar lead. I will admit that I probably have higher standards in that regard than hte casual listener.
It's this challenge of writing good melodies coupled with strong rhythms that inspires me to continue to explore and play in this genre.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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JoshHeartless
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 1010
Bay City, Michigan
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Posted on Feb 24 2008 12:18 PM
PolloGuitar
I definitely think we have entered a 4th wave. Something in the sound and style really changed in the 00s. A true merging of trad-surf and punk makes the music a lot harder and harsher. Any remnant of thirdwave sonic experimentation is gone. A return to the basic tools of the originals, but the songs are faster and deadlier.
FWIW--
--ferenc
i agree. as trad as i try to make our band sound, we'll always have that punk 'rawness' that i think a lot of the lesser-known first wavers had, but in less abundance.
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The Tremblors on MySpace!
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Feb 24 2008 02:08 PM
I went to speedball jr on friday, it had been a while since I saw them. To my regret, they were more punk than most punk bands Ive seen, the guy had his over the top overdrive pedal off for one intro, and melodies were certainly there by the look of his hadns but hardly discernable through the wall of sound sound. It didnt help that I had a paper hanky stuffed in my ears due to ridiculous volumes either.
which was a shame cause Speedball jr. was great last time I saw them
there's defintly a lot of punk influence in many surfbadns in europe, just not in the songwriting, melodies, but in the sound and attitude (and the style of tattoos). Danny said it well. btw, how about mc4 for a melodic punkband?
and what I've heard labbeled "punk" the last years is ubermelodic to an anoying degree, green day, the offspring, rancid. yuk. off course, it isnt really punk just mediocre guitarpop.
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25506
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Apr 22 2009 11:32 AM
brandonio
My statement still stands.I think the 4th wave is amongst us.I mean no disrespect to Frankie and the Poolboys,or the Tomorrowmen.The bands today have a different sound than classic 3rd wavers like Man Or Astroman,Impala,Satan's Pilgrims,Phantom Surfers,Galaxy Trio,Bomboras,or the Fathoms.I just think a line should be made some where.
But as I posted earlier in this thread.
there has been a constant flow of bands playing since the 3rd wave started.
and what do you call the bands that started in the early to mid 90s and are still going?
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2063
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Apr 22 2009 11:35 AM
John
Y'know, I think it might be enough to simply have a "first wave" and a "second wave." It was a dry, relatively reverbless period between the first two. Since 1980, however, there really haven't been any dry spells at all, just "wetter" periods than others, n'est pas?
Somebody agrees with me.
— Paul
Atomic Mosquitos
Bug music for bug people is here!
Killers from Space
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