GregEL
Joined: Mar 16, 2016
Posts: 217
Highland CA
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 08:26 AM
He's sick and can't carry on. To me most surf instrumentals have an important rhythm guitar part. Our lineup is traditional - lead and rhythm guitars, bass and drums.
Thinking about trying it as a trio for a while to see what happens. In a way there's a feeling of liberation. Perhaps I need to play more (lead guitar) to fill in the gaps, substitute more double stops instead of single note melodies? Creative arranging is certainly called for. Also the bass player needs to step up.
Suggestions are appreciated!
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CrazyAces
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4053
Nashville, TN.
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 09:34 AM
Don't fear the trio, lot's of folks here do it successfully.
I agree about rhythm parts being important, they are to both our originals in which each part has a specific arranged function and the covers we play but as you said, with some creative re-arranging it can be done and you may find that while some material may lack, other songs could take on new identity and surprise you.
I would be careful about playing more lead guitar to fill gaps. That can get boring to a crowd, no matter how good the player is.
Cheers,
Jeff
— http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 09:43 AM
Why does the bass player need to step up?
Also, take a month or two off and think about it. Don't have your next regularly scheduled practice and start to force the transition. Listen to your songs and think about what you need to do to translate them to a live setting minus the rhythm guitar.
Do you have any friends that play guitar? Those equal new rhythm guitarist. I was sick and replaced once, and I was happy to be replaced. My spot was waiting for me when I got back and we kept the other guy on. Extra best friend.
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tahitijack
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Posts: 693
San Clemente, CA
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 10:20 AM
If you are looking for another guitar player you might start here and it would be helpful to say where you live.
— Happy Sunsets!
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shake_n_stomp
Joined: Jan 09, 2014
Posts: 615
Vancouver BC
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 10:26 AM
I have been pondering a side project for another surf group - rather than the 2 guitarist format go with guitar-bass-drums +sax player.
— Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada
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WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 969
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 10:46 AM
Currently in a Trio. I never planned or wanted to be the guitarist in a trio, but until we find the perfect fit, it sure beats not playing at all.
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GregEL
Joined: Mar 16, 2016
Posts: 217
Highland CA
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 10:59 AM
"If you are looking for another guitar player you might start here and it would be helpful to say where you live."
Good idea. I live in SoCal, Highland (Inland Empire).
Thanks!
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montereyjack66
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
Posts: 637
LA -ish
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 11:31 AM
Unless you had a fabulously lame 2nd guitarist, you will find there is a world of difference without the second guitar. You merely playing the same bits without him/her isn't going to work most of the time. It is also difficult to really hear the songs from a fresh perspective - for a while anyways. That said, the three piece has many advantages and can be liberating - although that also can be an intoxicating trap.
The bass and drums will need to adapt also, but there can be limits. On the other hand, there are many kinds of trios. Cream, the Police, Dick Dale, Jimi, Nat King Cole, SRV. If you wish to remain on the more trad side of things, probably you should find that second git, keyboard, sax player, or?
Does your bass player play guitar also? Who made the rule that there HAS TO BE A BASS? (I'm a bass player, so take that one with a grain of salt ;-). In the trio I play in I also use a Squire Bass VI sometimes, which allows me to straddle guitar/bass for the needs of the song. It seems to work and gets a positive response from the audience.
Sometimes I do my best thinking going for a hike. Suggest you clear your mind, start fresh, and re-imagine all things possible. Good luck!
mj
— mj
bent playing for benter results
Do not attempt to adjust your TV set.
https://www.facebook.com/Bass-VI-Explorers-Club-179437279151035/
https://www.facebook.com/Lost-Planet-Shamen-366987463657230/
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fenderfan
Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Posts: 780
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 12:05 PM
Trio format (guitar, bass, drums) has worked very well for the Royal Aces. We're too greedy to split the money four ways, we get a lot of gigs, and the rehearsing and general band organization is easier. In the rare circumstance where a song just won't work without a second guitar, we skip it, because there are so many other great songs to play.
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3809
North Atlantic
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 02:46 PM
I really love the trio format, but have only played surf this way. Certain tunes would need rearranging to fill in the gaps, though not everything needs to be filled. Silence, and dynamic texture (thin/thick) are also part of music. Try out the troo with your band (and record it) to see how it sounds. For me, it is better to play than not play.
Rev
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
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josheboy
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2366
Twin Cities, MN
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 06:16 PM
GregEL wrote:
"If you are looking for another guitar player you might start here and it would be helpful to say where you live."
Good idea. I live in SoCal, Highland (Inland Empire).
Thanks!
You're in Highland? You should write a song about Rosa Maria's Mexican food stand on Sierra Way. Best burritos ever. 
Good luck with your search!
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Mar 22 2016 07:53 AM
josheboy wrote:
You're in Highland? You should write a song about Rosa Maria's Mexican food stand on Sierra Way. Best burritos ever.
LOVE it! The culinary equivalent of "26 Miles"!
(from the perspective of an ex-pat Van Nuys denizen)
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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BillAqua
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1054
Chicago IL.
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Posted on Mar 22 2016 08:12 AM
We did the trio thing in the Reluctant Aquanauts. I always wanted a second guitarist, horns, organ, etc. But we made it work. When we did covers some of it sounded weird. I've always loved the Astronauts and Eddie and the Showman and there is strong rhythm guitar(s) with both of those bands. So we did our own take on it(which was really just no rhythm guitar). We actually tried about 4 rhythm guitarists and none of them fit.
It helped when we started writting originals that we knew we were going to perfom them as a trio. So they didn't sound like they were lacking. Although ironically our last "album" I had plans on overdubbing multi-instruments and vocals like a Dick Dale Capitol record.
What do you mean by the bass player needs to step up? If he's just not playing well that is one thing, but if you're looking for opinions a bass trying to make up for the lack of a rhythm guitar in order to fill space is disasterous.
— "as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"
https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/
Last edited: Mar 22, 2016 08:13:16
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GregEL
Joined: Mar 16, 2016
Posts: 217
Highland CA
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Posted on Mar 22 2016 08:44 AM
My comment on the bass player needing to step up seems to raise a bit of a question. Thinking perhaps in a trio the bass player needs to be more aggressive and yes, fill in the holes a bit with more harmonic content. Especially on the slower numbers. Dare I say even louder?
As far as it being disastrous, that's what practices are for. Don't plan on trotting out on stage a disastrous arrangement of anything, LOL! Maybe I should have said the guitar player (me) needs to step up with imaginative fills, etc. An example would be in the Ventures' version of "Perfidia" to use some double stops in the main melody so it doesn't sound so thin. They need to be harmonically correct of course and just plain sound good.
All this is just me thinking out loud, really appreciate all your input. Keep the ideas coming!
Oh, and yes, where I live is burrito land...
Last edited: Mar 22, 2016 08:47:49
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murph
Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Posts: 341
Chapel Hill, NC
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Posted on Mar 22 2016 02:29 PM
Greg,
First off, sorry to hear about your bandmate needing to step away for health reasons. I hope he bounces back asap.
I have been watching (borderline obsessing over) the work of Oleg Gitarkin in Messur Chups lately. His ability to seamlessly switch between rhythm and lead and creatively "fill sonic space" is astounding. There are a ton of live performance videos on youtube that may give you some inspiration and ideas to incorporate into your own playing. Or it may just inspire to list your stuff for sale on craigslist. I kid, but damn he is good at what he does.
Of all genres, I think surf is one of the most difficult to pull off as a trio. Playing rock/rockabilly/blues/ in a trio is hard enough but with vocals, it's one more voice/instrument capable of creating/contributing to melody, counter-melody, and harmony.
For instrumental surf music, songs you know and love playing as a 4-piece suddenly sound hollow and lacking in some way. I definitely agree that songs written for a trio (or more accurately one guitarist) are easier to pull off.
But bottom line (and for better or worse) I think it comes down to the guitarist having the chops to do most/all of the heavy lifting regarding melody and other compositional elements not easily provided by bass or drums. If it were me, I'd definitely take Jake's advice and invite a casual guitar-playing friend over for a low-key-completely-for-funsies surf jam and see what happens.
-murph
— http://www.reverbnation.com/elmiragesurf
http://www.reverbnation.com/aminorconspiracy
"I knew I was in trouble when the Coco-Loco tasted like water!" -- morphball
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SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Jan 10 2017 06:01 PM
josheboy wrote:
You're in Highland? You should write a song about Rosa Maria's Mexican food stand on Sierra Way. Best burritos ever.
Garbage Burrito. Been eating them for at least 25 years.
Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 17:16:30
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Agent71857
Joined: Apr 15, 2014
Posts: 164
Pittsburgh, Pa
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Posted on Jan 11 2017 10:23 AM
We really dig the trio format. It makes everything easier. (Practice, new tunes, set up/tear down) We've never shied away from any tunes. I agree with the statement that the bass player needs to step up. Our guy has a great way of filling up the space when I take a lead. We also like to play pretty aggressively & pretty loud! So space and release are a good thing. Mike (bass) & Gary (who was the drummer on Link Wrays last tour!) are really intuitive players & make my job really easy!
I really think you should push ahead! It's a great opportunity to relisten/revisit the music. I've learned a lot about playing this music by having to take songs & pare them down to just the parts that get the meaning across.
Good luck!
— www.instagram.com/_the.outer.limits_
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX7iIpcAvL8In2HY9I7QoPw
www.theouterlimits.bandcamp.com
www.facebook.com/vertigogo.surf
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el_camello
Joined: Jul 04, 2010
Posts: 369
Ottawa
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Posted on Jan 11 2017 10:40 AM
"What would YOU do?"
I would try to find a new rhythm guitarist.
In the meantime I guess you are a trio. If you end up liking being a trio you can always call off the search. Probably an obvious answer but that is what I would do!
— -Pierre
The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf)
The Obsidians debut EP
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ArtS
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 1356
Isle of Kent, MD
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Posted on Jan 12 2017 12:38 PM
Currently playing in a trio. Melodically and harmonically it just doesn't have the same satisfaction as playing with a good 2nd guitar. So I vote for "GET A NEW 2ND GUITARIST". Agree that bass player will need to "step up" or maybe just fill in a few areas; sometimes space is good. Hate when songs we write sound fuller on cd than live. Don't stop playing as trio, keep the chops up. Plus need gigs to entice players. Best of luck!
— Surfcat
Agent Octopus
Agent Octopus Bandcamp
Wake up Jimmy! It's Christmastime! - New Single
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josheboy
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2366
Twin Cities, MN
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Posted on Jan 12 2017 12:48 PM
Give up guitars and go electronica. All you need is a laptop, a cool logo/name/brand, and lots of drugs to give out to the purple haired raver girls dancing to whatever noise is emitting from said laptop.
Problem solved!
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