Surf Scales?

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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Surf Scales?

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xc105 Joined: Aug 05, 2015 Posts: 6 Puerto Rico	Posted on Aug 05 2015 03:43 PM Hi, I saw a post a bit about this...but it went a bit of topic haha. I am new to the surf music, although Ive been playing guitar for a few years. I am a massive beach boys fan, but always been more partial to the post-surf years. Lately I've been getting more interested, and listened to the few podcast on here and I'm hooked!! so been writing and stuff, and here is the question. What scales are used for surf music? to get that distinctive sound? I'm not talking about the reverb and clean fenders...but that distinctive playing that soon as you hear a few bars you go "thats surf music" definitely not pentatonic scales! haha any help would be wonderful! thanks guys! Top
revmike Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 3810 North Atlantic	Posted on Aug 05 2015 06:37 PM There is lots of good information here http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/23674/?page=1 You can use the search function as well. Welcome aboard, Rev — Canadian Surf http://www.urbansurfkings.com/ Top
xc105 Joined: Aug 05, 2015 Posts: 6 Puerto Rico	Posted on Aug 05 2015 06:50 PM hey! thanks yes I've seen that, I've also searched online quite a bit and I've found that the phyrgian scale is mentioned a lot Top
JObeast Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 2762 Finknabad, Squinkistan	Posted on Aug 05 2015 08:39 PM Yep, fridge and the modal interchange that obtains from playing G F E major chords - from flamenco. — Squink Out! Top
xc105 Joined: Aug 05, 2015 Posts: 6 Puerto Rico	Posted on Aug 05 2015 08:42 PM JObeast wrote: Yep, fridge and the modal interchange that obtains from playing G F E major chords - from flamenco. Hey reckon you can explain bit further?? I'm not very good with theory haha Top
el_camello Joined: Jul 04, 2010 Posts: 369 Ottawa	Posted on Aug 06 2015 08:26 AM The really short version: Just play Amin - G - F - Emin, then play Amin - G - F - E. The one with Emajor sounds cooler. The Emajor has a G# instead of a G. So your melody over the Emajor should have a G# instead of a G. The medium version: In Amin if you descend the chords in the key you get Amin, G, F, Em (Emin being the 5th chord of the scales... 1A 2B 3C 4D 5E). The flamenco thing referred to by JObeast is when you make the 5th chord of the minor scale a major instead of a minor (in this case E major). A way to understand this further is to understand that: A) the difference between Emajor and Eminor is the G note in the chord is sharp for the major chord (EG#B instead of EGB). B) The harmonic minor scale has G# instead of a G (ABCDEFG# instead of ABCEDEFG). If you change the modal focus of your progression to E (ie: keeping all the same chords as Amin with the Emajor chord, BUT center your playing around the Emajor chord) you get some pretty standard surf sounds going. From a scale point of view, if you take all the same notes as Amin harmonic but center it around E, you get the previously mentioned E phrygian dominant. The long version: pick up guitar and practice for rest of life. — -Pierre The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf) The Obsidians debut EP Last edited: Aug 06, 2015 08:59:24 Top
xc105 Joined: Aug 05, 2015 Posts: 6 Puerto Rico	Posted on Aug 06 2015 08:40 AM el_camello wrote: The really short version: Just play Amin - G - F - Emin, then play Amin - G - F - E. The one with Emajor sounds cooler. The medium version: In Amin if you descend the chords in the key you get Amin, G, F, Em (Emin being the 5th chord of the scales... 1A 2B 3C 4D 5E). The flamenco thing referred to by JObeast is when you make the 5th chord of the minor scale a major instead of a minor (in this case E major). A way to understand this further is to understand that: A) the difference between Emajor and Eminor is the G note in the chord is sharp for the major chord (EG#B instead of EGB). B) The harmonic minor scale has G# instead of a G (ABCDEFG# instead of ABCEDEFG). If you change the modal focus of your progression to E (ie: keeping all the same chords as Amin with the Emajor chord, BUT center your playing around the Emajor chord) you get some pretty standard surf sounds going. From a scale point of view, if you take all the same notes as Amin harmonic but center it around E, you get the previously mentioned E phrygian dominant. The long version: pick up guitar and practice for rest of life. hahaha! thanks though this was quite helpful though! Top
xc105 Joined: Aug 05, 2015 Posts: 6 Puerto Rico	Posted on Aug 06 2015 08:56 AM el_camello wrote: The really short version: Just play Amin - G - F - Emin, then play Amin - G - F - E. The one with Emajor sounds cooler. The medium version: In Amin if you descend the chords in the key you get Amin, G, F, Em (Emin being the 5th chord of the scales... 1A 2B 3C 4D 5E). The flamenco thing referred to by JObeast is when you make the 5th chord of the minor scale a major instead of a minor (in this case E major). A way to understand this further is to understand that: A) the difference between Emajor and Eminor is the G note in the chord is sharp for the major chord (EG#B instead of EGB). B) The harmonic minor scale has G# instead of a G (ABCDEFG# instead of ABCEDEFG). If you change the modal focus of your progression to E (ie: keeping all the same chords as Amin with the Emajor chord, BUT center your playing around the Emajor chord) you get some pretty standard surf sounds going. From a scale point of view, if you take all the same notes as Amin harmonic but center it around E, you get the previously mentioned E phrygian dominant. The long version: pick up guitar and practice for rest of life. I just jammed along to what you explained, and it sounds so cool! but I also just got the feeling? if you know what I mean? like I was doing that progression and kinda jammed on top of it doing what you said and mixing minor and major scales and you just go with it and it sounds really cool, think I'll give writing a go today! Top
JObeast Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 2762 Finknabad, Squinkistan	Posted on Aug 06 2015 11:34 AM You don't need any theory; flamencos didn't use it - just their ears. Surf music is about tunes and rhythms, not scales and theory. Flamenco use of modal interchange produces an enharmonic change in melody that gives the spicy melody to a tune like Zorongo Gitano which is the origin of the surf tune "Exotic". I don't think gypsies who seem to have invented this block chord 'progression' (really a riff) G F E really though about theory. In the mixed mode played on the guitar, E is the root. — Squink Out! Top
Ariel Joined: Aug 29, 2009 Posts: 1556 Israel	Posted on Aug 09 2015 03:58 AM I don't think the creative process is separate from the theory you know or hold. You can think of music in terms of color, private little feelings for each note or chord, or numbers, or whatever - organized and memorized information, that you can repeat to yourself or others. Ears hear, brain holds. Hey Jo, you just proved the necessity of theory, by using it in your own explanation. At the very least, it is a very useful communication method. Top
JObeast Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 2762 Finknabad, Squinkistan	Posted on Oct 22 2015 11:28 PM I have been transrcibring solos of tunes I like and I notice that surf lead guitar used the 'blues scale' pentatonic in a peculiar, primitive way. Whereas a sophisticated real blues guitarist (wutevs) wrings all the meaning he can out of a single 5-note scale for an entire cycle of chords in the 12-bar fashion common to urban ("Chicago") blues, the scale being rooted in the tonic chord – i.e., a Blues in G would use I, IV & V7 chords G, A & A7, the scale played across all three chords is the 'minor pentatonic' of G - Bb – C - D - F. In surf music, the scale of riffs played against chords shifts to the tonic of each chord. "Wipeout" uses this technique, as does the Ghastly Ones' "Haulin' Hearse" – A minor pent. & G minor pent. In the Trashmen's "Malagueña" the lead guitar pays blues riffs in E min. Pent. & F minor pent. (XII & XIII fret 'box' positions) as the chords change. This fast & loose method of rock riffing that changes scale along with chords is one of the features distinctive of the surf style. — Squink Out! Last edited: Oct 22, 2015 23:28:37 Top
Syndicateofsurf Joined: Oct 08, 2014 Posts: 1073 Northern Ohio	Posted on Oct 23 2015 07:49 AM JObeast wrote: You don't need any theory; flamencos didn't use it - just their ears. Surf music is about tunes and rhythms, not scales and theory. Flamenco use of modal interchange produces an enharmonic change in melody that gives the spicy melody to a tune like Zorongo Gitano which is the origin of the surf tune "Exotic". I don't think gypsies who seem to have invented this block chord 'progression' (really a riff) G F E really though about theory. In the mixed mode played on the guitar, E is the root. Thank you JObeast! I can't do all this theory and stuff but I do have 2 ears (like most gypsies). Yes I know a couple scales, I call them the blues scale and major scale and I use them to find my way around the neck but increasingly for surf/instro I just look for the notes that sound right. The scales and key are the starting points for the search for the notes and melodies. BTW Praise the key of E. The motherload of notes. — Da Vinci Flinglestein, The quest for the Tone, the tone of the Quest The Syndicate of Surf on YouTube http://www.syndicateofsurf.com/ http://sharawaji.com/ http://surfrockradio.com/ Top

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