psychonaut
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1308
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 01:13 PM
To paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's quote about defining obscenity:
I shall not attempt to define Surf music, but I know it when I hear it.
— https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com
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HallmarkSweptWinger
Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 1284
Berlinesia, Germanifornia
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 01:26 PM
So the question is "What is Surf Music?"?
The answer is: Good!
…okay: I would say without being too much scientific: Surf Music is instrumental guitar music with a splishy splashy cool feeling! Reverb drenched guitars. Feelings from totally powerful to ultra moody to happy or just supercool. Easy melodies which make you think that you want to hear them again! : )
That`s it.
— Twang cheers!
Ralf Kilauea
www.kilaueas.de
https://kilaueas.bandcamp.com/album/touch-my-alien
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 02:18 PM
Was gonna post a larger .pdf of some Cowabunga material I have but...
oops - guess videos & pics ok, files not so much. Nevermind.
For the discussion:
So does it matter if an artist doesn't consider themselves a "surf band" per se, but does some piece(s) of music that meets the arbitrary guidelines of some group of judges? Does it make that piece of music 'not' surf because of its parentage? The question Jon Paul poses regards the music, not the definition of a surf band. Just asking, not poking.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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dboomer
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 262
Port Hueneme, CA
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 03:59 PM
JakeDobner wrote:
Good music does not contain:
1.) Saxophone
Really?
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 04:02 PM
dboomer wrote:
JakeDobner wrote:
Good music does not contain:
1.) Saxophone
Really? 
Nope! Buddy Holly's True Love Ways, Brian Setzer's A Nightengale Sang in Berkeley Square, Dire Strait's Latest Trick. I like all of those!
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dboomer
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 262
Port Hueneme, CA
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 05:02 PM
Pink Floyd - Us and Them, Money
Gerry Rafferty - Baker Street
David Bowie - Young Americans
King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid Man
Supertramp - Logical Song
Champs - Tequila
Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Cannonball Adderley
None of these are good music?
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shivers13
Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 2605
Boss Angeles, CA
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 05:05 PM
dboomer wrote:
None of these are good music? 
Or these???...
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/13291/
— BOSS FINK "R.P.M." available now from DOUBLE CROWN RECORDS!
www.facebook.com/BossFink
www.doublecrownrecords.com
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 05:05 PM
Ironically, it's kind of a fuzzy category. I always figure I'm safer saying I like instrumental rock & roll. It's true, and it's a hell of lot easier to define. Some of it is even surf music. Some surf music may not be instrumental, but it's definitely always the instrumentation and sound that define it. Vocals are usually absent, but the players have never actually been gagged and sometimes they do quite a lot of vocalizing, some of it actual singing.
With apologies to Emilien, I don't think Fender has that much to do with it. It makes the sound a lot easier, of course. And it's cooler than calling surf music the Silvertone sound, which, in the end wouldn't be that accurate anyway. It is the sound, but the sound comes of the guitarists and the recordists and their taste.
Everything today sounds kind of punk, have you noticed? Fortunately it's kind of independent of what makes surf surf.
The drumming is definitely important, but at my (low) level of understanding it's not the "beats," but the style - the use of fills and what parts of the kit get used for what - and the tonal qualities. In a lot of more recent bands the drumming isn't very surfy.
We redefine surf music every time a new band comes along that claims to be playing it all or even just some of the time. I think the whole process of fussy definitions of what it is didn't really take off until John Blair and that generation started to try to define what it was that they liked well enough to revive. In the process they managed to canonize a lot of things the first wave might have excluded on the grounds that the bands were a bunch of non-surfing ho-dads from the wrong high school. The sounds were more important to the second wave than the schools and clothing and lifestyle.
And, of course, they heard with only one ear, an ear raised in a guitar-based milieu.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 05:34 PM
Being born & raised in Van Nuys - during an era about which Jeff Cooper said "it was a different country then" - when I hear something that evokes all that & those memories, I will call it surf music. Bicycling over the hills to Santa Monica, the snap of a cheap foam body-board with little additional money in the pocket, getting pummeled by waves and a mouthful of grit that doesn't seem to come out for 3 days... be sure & use the pull-shower by the parking lot so Mom doesn't scream when we get back... shit!, we got burned, she's gonna want to sponge us down with vinegar or something.
For me it has some definable characteristics; I may be more, or less, inclusive than some in that I recognize some of the same bands might release things that could be categorized as "garage" music or "hot-rod" music (for cruising Van Nuys Blvd on Wednesday nights). I don't mind a little sax or keys if that fits the song; over-production will tend to get a grimace out of me and live stuff captured always gets a slightly bigger nod.
-
I can buy into the part about an easily-understood groove or theme that is generally maintained throughout the song. Drummers & bass players need not be bashful; hit that sucker. Brief departures ok, but must return to the groove. I love Allman Bros. & Hendirx' music but, please, no long explorations to go discover yourself.
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Must have an electric guitar or 2; must have reverb or echo used to dramatic effect to the extent that it sets the song apart IMMEDIATELY from other genre. The tone of the guitar(s) must reach out & GRAB & say 'I am the lead dog here." And that is done without too much square-wave; clean & driven doesn't have to be muddy.
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I don't get hung up on whether the thing has Arabic roots or Latin roots or tree roots. But it has to evoke those personal memories, so it's not really a thing that lends itself to technical documentation. There's alot of great music done by many here that I love which, to me, isn't surf but I love it anyway & will buy the record. The next track on the same record might be surf. A Bond or Secret Agent man-type song might be kick-ass (but not surf). A Western themed-song might be kick-ass (but not surf).
Long way 'round the barn (Justice Potter attribution above was a good one) but it is a sound that brings forth memories of a wonderful time in a wonderful place. That's really all I need. If pushed to it, I imagine this is a pretty individualized thing for many for a variety of reasons.
My surf is my surf.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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big_papu
Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 657
Buenos Aires
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 05:50 PM
surf music is to play a sparkle guitar throw a reverb unit and a showman amp and hit that shit as hard as possible......
— El Papu & los Fantasticos Reverberantes
Last edited: Oct 07, 2014 17:51:33
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Number9
Joined: Jul 18, 2009
Posts: 499
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 06:41 PM
.
Last edited: Mar 01, 2020 11:02:27
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 07:04 PM
Number9 wrote:
1.) Surf Music is not the music that surfers listen to
I am actually surfing and the music related to surfing means a lot to me.
And i'm surely not the only "surfer" that's got a spot on Surf Music.
Jack Johnson is surf music if what I say is not true.
2.) Mentioning surfing/the ocean does not surf music make
Obviously.
Seen Freddie King's 'surf album'? Surf themed album that has nothing to do with surf music. Or the Drums 'Surfing'
3.) Surf Music can not contain lyrics that are sung
That has been debated a lot ;) but i really dig The Sunrays myself.
And would also consider The Beach Boys somewhere in the surf music area.
Yeah, I personally consider the Beach Boys a surf band. I'm really just ruling out bands nowdays being surf and having a lot of vocals.
Surf Music is:
1.) The music associated with surfing in the early-mid-60s
There are people surfing nowadays and currently interested in the vacuity of this lifestyle and actual music.
Then you wrote: "Surf Music doesn't not necessarily need...:
1.) to be an homage to 60s culture/retro shit"
that leaves me wondering.
You missed the words "does not necessarily need to be". Surf music is that music that was associated, at first, with surfing in the early to mid 60s. But you don't need to make it an homage to an era. I've been heavily influenced by all the great surf music but I'm not trying to copy or make an homage. I'm putting my own experiences and taste into what I get out of listening to that music. Music should be timeless, not confined to an era.
2.) Instrumental
3.) Guitar based
4.) Heavily reverbed lead guitar
5.) It will be 90% of the time uptempo(relatively uptempo)
That is your opinion.
I know! But it is the same opinion of 80% of the people on this board.
Surf Music doesn't not necessarily need...:
1.) to be an homage to 60s culture/retro shit
Some word i dislike...
We covered this...
2.) to be influenced by 60s surf bands
Can you actually play "pipeline", my friend ?
I made a statement everyboby gotta know where he/she's coming from.
Yep. It was one of the first songs I ever learned to play on guitar about 15 years ago. My band still covers it.
3.) to follow a specific arrangement(ABABA)
Ali BABA ?
I'm going to presume you are stupid for a second... ABABA is a type of song composition. Verse Chorus Verse Chorus Verse. It's called pop music.
4.) to contain the 'surf' beat
What do you consider a "Surf beat" ?
The surf beat is the surf beat. Double hit on the two, a single hit on the fourt.
Good music does not contain:
1.) Saxophone
Now, we all know.
A jest!
2.) Regurgitated lessons in a nailing the perfect recreation of a certain era/time-frame.
Once again, i believe ...know your roots.
Can you play some Mr.Moto or Intoxica ?
Intoxica, no. Mr. Moto, yes. I've also written what I consider to be surf music. Instead of only playing the classics, I actively participate in furthering the surf legacy.
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 07:16 PM
Also, incredibly interested in why you think knowing how to play specific songs is at any way relevant to one's ability to speak about surf music?
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PrestonRice
Joined: Oct 05, 2012
Posts: 1725
Austin, Texas
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 07:18 PM
I often wonder what music would be like if someone had a long time to develop music, from square one... Without "knowing their roots".
— IMO.
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ErnestHernandez
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 597
The Alamo City, TX
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Posted on Oct 07 2014 09:58 PM
I think CousinMary and big_papu nailed it. Most other posts about the subject, sound a bit pedantic.
— https://kingpelican.bandcamp.com/
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simoncoil
Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 928
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Oct 08 2014 06:13 AM
Some further thoughts on this: A lot of the attempts here to define surf music center on the musical or sonic characteristics of it, which brings with it two problems.
The first problem is, that all of the elements of first wave surf music was there before the "idea" of surf music or the name: There was instrumental guitar centered rock'n'roll (most notably the Fireballs and the Ventures), there was reverb (Duane Eddy), mediterranean/oriental scales in American music (John Coltrane's album "Olé" from 1961), the surf reference in titles (Art Pepper, Bud Shank) and so on. And there are of course even surfbands that don't employ most of these characteristics, most notably the Belairs, who didn't use reverb, had no oriental scales and no reference to surfing in their tunes what so ever.
Jake mentioned two things above that seem to contradivt each other, but are in my eyes the key to understand, what surf music actually is:
Surf Music is: The music associated with surfing in the early-mid-60s.
As to the account of Paul Johnson about the origins of surf music, he himself had no idea, that he was playing surf music until he was told he did by a local surf kid. The music (instrumental rock'n'roll) came first, the name for it came later, as a certain group of people claimed it as their own. Certain stories by Dick Dale can be interpreted in the same way: He was given the title "king of the surf guitar" by the surfers, one of whom also provided the title for his first surf tune (Let's go trippin).
However at some point surfers (pretty much like everybody else) stopped listening to this music, or as Jake would say:
Surf Music is not the music that surfers listen to.
In our contemporary world the reference to surfing is in a way a leftover from the past: Most of the surfers do not claim the music we call surf music as theirs anymore, but we continue to call it surf music, because it inspired a lot of titles for great tunes and provides a nice image to the music.
So, in consequence, I would say my definition of surf music is: a form of (mostly) instrumental, guitar-driven rock'n'roll that was originally associated with surfing in the 60s.
The second, more general problem is that I don't think that there is a clear definition based on the musical charecteristics of any genre, that does not exclude certain tunes or musicians, which are considered part of the canon by most fans of the genre. As an example: What exactly is this music called jazz? Is there a possible definition for a genre that encompasses music as different as Louis Armstrong and his Hot Five and Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew"?
— Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!
Last edited: Oct 08, 2014 06:14:08
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Oct 08 2014 06:03 PM
JakeDobner wrote:
Yeah, I personally consider the Beach Boys a surf band. I'm really just ruling out bands nowdays being surf and having a lot of vocals.
Exactly. Modern pop bands called "surfy" are seldom anything like surf. It's a perverse and awkward shift in meaning of the term that has to be watched out for constantly. Too late to do anything about it, but let's not fall over it. It's not so much the vocals that are wrong in that stuff as everything else. And yet ... I prefer no singing. It kind of gets in the way of the guitar.
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Slick
Joined: Jul 02, 2013
Posts: 50
Mid-Atlantic
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Posted on Oct 10 2014 02:11 PM
JakeDobner wrote:
Good music does not contain:
1.) Saxophone
What's wrong with the sax? It is serpently not as iconic as the guitar in surf music, but it deserves it's place in this genre. Think "Surf Rider" by The Lively Ones... surf doesn't get much better than that.
Slick
— East Coast Executive Director Of The Society Of Incompleted Projects
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 10 2014 02:14 PM
Slick wrote:
JakeDobner wrote:
Good music does not contain:
1.) Saxophone
What's wrong with the sax? It is serpently not as iconic as the guitar in surf music, but it deserves it's place in this genre. Think "Surf Rider" by The Lively Ones... surf doesn't get much better than that.
Slick
I didn't mention surf music in conjunction with the sax! Also, read all the posts in the thread for more explanation.
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25727
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Oct 10 2014 10:24 PM
surf music is what I listen to, when not listening to 10 other kinds of music I like.
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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