remora1
Joined: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 1278
San Pedro, CA
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Posted on May 12 2014 11:19 AM
For some time now I've been thinking about upgrading my Hot Rod Deville with a Mercury Magnetics OT but the price has always kept me on the fence, wondering if the improvement would be worth it. Then I recently came across Classic Tone Transformers and I wondered how they measure up. Anyone have experience with them? The Classic Tone is about $100 cheaper than the Mercury which makes it very appealing, yet I'm left wondering if any OT upgrade would make a noticeable difference at all... 
— Bill S._______
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on May 12 2014 12:54 PM
I own a Pro Junior with an unsolvable buzz problem I thought might be cured with a new OT. The Mercury Magnets option is at least a reasonable price I can afford but from what I have read and found on youtube it mainly smooths the signal. The buyer hoping for more is slightly underwhelmed but pleased it makes some difference.
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BJB
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
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Posted on May 12 2014 02:22 PM
No, no, no, no! The Fender transformers are great and there's no real need to replace them. Maybe the Mercury Magnetic transformers sound slightly different (better?) but the cost/benefit ratio is not favorable at all. Your money is better spent on good tubes (stock Fender tubes are awful) or even speakers.
If you think there is an actual problem with your Hot Rod DeVille, or you have an improvement in mind that you would like to explore, you could describe it and someone here might be able to help you resolve the issue.
— If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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BJB
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
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Posted on May 12 2014 02:27 PM
I have seen a number of bad output transformers, but none of them were responsible for a buzz problem. Those are caused by problems with tubes, the power supply, a bad power transformer, etc. All of those issues are addressed by identifying the component at fault and then replacing it, not by spending money on things and hoping you guessed right.
— If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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remora1
Joined: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 1278
San Pedro, CA
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Posted on May 12 2014 03:35 PM
BJB wrote:
No, no, no, no! The Fender transformers are great and there's no real need to replace them. Maybe the Mercury Magnetic transformers sound slightly different (better?) but the cost/benefit ratio is not favorable at all. Your money is better spent on good tubes (stock Fender tubes are awful) or even speakers.
If you think there is an actual problem with your Hot Rod DeVille, or you have an improvement in mind that you would like to explore, you could describe it and someone here might be able to help you resolve the issue.
Nah, I'm not having any problems with the amp. I've actually done quite a few of the free and cheap mods I have found and a tube upgrade and the amp sounds pretty great as of now. Unfortunately, like your signature line I have a tendency to "fix" things until they're broke. I was just hoping for a little extra mojo like our friend Dave Wronski describes HERE. I'll probably leave well enough alone (if I can help it), my main question was regarding Classic Tone. I just wondered if anyone knew how they compared to Mercury.
Thanks for your input, if and when a real problem arises SG101 will be my first stop 
— Bill S._______
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on May 12 2014 03:45 PM
BJB wrote:
I have seen a number of bad output transformers, but none of them were responsible for a buzz problem. Those are caused by problems with tubes, the power supply, a bad power transformer, etc. All of those issues are addressed by identifying the component at fault and then replacing it, not by spending money on things and hoping you guessed right.
When I bought the Pro Junior (used) the OT was dangling down on one screw. The amp tends to act like transceiver especially when near my cable modem, most other times it makes motor boat noises, hisses, pops. It's been a lot better since the eBay mod upgrade package and new JJ tubes. It came with a Jensen speaker and sounds better than you'd imagine. When it was on the bench with back cover off I noticed the noise got a heck of a lot worse if I hovered my hand near the OT and remembering it was hanging off when I received it came to the conclusion it could have suffered some stress.
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Hammond101
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Posts: 342
SoCal USA
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Posted on May 15 2014 12:40 PM
There is a lot of smoke and mirrors with aftermarket OTs. Most of it is BS designed to sell stuff for more that it is worth. The only time I have used Mercury is when the factory replacement power tranny is crap as in a Vox AC30CC2 for example.
I don't believe in OT changes looking for mojo, tone, spank, etc. It just isn't there.
— Keep it Drippy Brothers and Sisters!
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remora1
Joined: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 1278
San Pedro, CA
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Posted on May 15 2014 01:01 PM
Thanks for the input guys, I think I'm gonna leave it alone and work on my playing instead 
— Bill S._______
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SlacktoneDave
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
Posts: 657
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Posted on May 15 2014 01:03 PM
My first experience with Mercury Magnetics transformer. My original tweed Bassman OT blew, put in a quality, custom OT....the amp never ACTED the same, inc. the sound was not as good. I got a mercury OT for it ( before he really went public doing guitar amp stuff), and the difference was shocking to me. Was even better than the original transformer.
Next example... Two identical custom made amps. Only difference is output transformer. The mercury sounded so much better, that the builder thought te other amp had something wrong with it when I demoed. Turns out, nothing was wrong, just different performance of the transformers.
Just my take on it.
Edit: the non-Mercury transformer was a new Fender transformer.
Last edited: May 17, 2014 08:31:42
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on May 15 2014 01:28 PM
I agree with Dave about Mercury Magnetics. They build a very good product. I have routinely upgraded the OT's in my Bandmasters/Bassmans, both Blonde and BF with their "lots-o-iron" premium transformers and have been most pleased.
One minor gremmie though is that the lead marking colors were backwards from all the ones I swapped out color wise and I had to reverse the leads to prevent the over the top howl.
That first one got my attention big time as I was not expecting that!
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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remora1
Joined: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 1278
San Pedro, CA
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Posted on May 15 2014 01:53 PM
Thanks Dave, I was hoping you'd chime in. It sounds like if I was going to change out the OT, Mercury is the only way to go. I was just curious about the Classic Tone transformers and wondered how they compared. Like I said, after a few tweaks I'm pretty happy with the amp as it is so for now anyways I'm gonna sit tight. Thanks again everyone.
— Bill S._______
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SlacktoneDave
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
Posts: 657
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Posted on May 15 2014 03:12 PM
I don't know anything about the other company... They may be great. Changing a transformer is a big job, and considerable cost. I can't really experiment anymore.
-dave
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Hammond101
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Posts: 342
SoCal USA
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Posted on May 15 2014 03:55 PM
If you are upgrading to more iron or different specs I might consider them an option. Apples to apples stock replacements have never impressed me given the cost.
Mercury does do a nice job of custom rewinds however if you have a failed vintage original transformer and want to keep the amp as stock as possible.
— Keep it Drippy Brothers and Sisters!
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BJB
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
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Posted on May 16 2014 01:35 PM
The problem is, I've built a lot of great amps with the stock Fender transformers! I've also tried expensive aftermarket transformers and they didn't do anything special. Then there were repairs I had to do for cheap, so I used the Weber transformers from China and the amps turned out great. I know the Mercury Magnetics transformers are supposed to be pretty good but they are just too expensive for me to recommend to the working guitar players I deal with.
If the amp belonged to a doctor or lawyer then maybe, but even then I would feel like a fraud. There is more to making an amp sound good than just the transformer so I use the cheap methods first. The new Fender transformers are good (at least, they used to be in the 90's) but the other components in there are not so great. They are cheap to replace and they do make a difference in how an amp sounds. So there's a lot I can do to an amp to make it work with the owner's playing style without resorting to expensive component swaps.
— If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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BJB
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
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Posted on May 16 2014 01:53 PM
Then there's the concept of 'chasing the dragon'. This is a term familiar to people suffering from heroin addiction. The idea is that an addicts keeps trying to relive the euphoria of the first few times they used, but the nature of the addiction means they can never get that feeling back again.
Something similar happens when a musician becomes a gear junkie. You mod your amp once and it sounds better, then you mod it again and improves a little bit more. Then you try some more mods and there's only a slight improvement. Or maybe there isn't, but you think there is because you just spend $100. Do you stop there or do you decide that you need to spend $500 on the next mod?
At this point, you need to decide if you are interested in making music or chasing a dragon you'll never catch. If you have the $$ and being a gear junkie is what does it for you, then fine. You aren't really hurting anybody. Besides, if you are a pro, you might get more gigs when you have magic guitars and amps. But the fact is you don't need the World's Greatest Amp to make good music. Is your audience happy? Are you recordings good enough? If so, then maybe you don't need to obsess about your gear and you can go back to making music. If you can find it in yourself to see someone else pay $10,000 for a Dumble amp without feeling a twinge of envy, then you will know you are not a mere gear junkie, but a real musician.
— If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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Hammond101
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Posts: 342
SoCal USA
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Posted on May 16 2014 02:52 PM
Well said BJB. I completely agree. Gear will not improve your playing, only time in the woodshed will do that.
Actually, there is another seller of transformers I have used for special applications including some of my personal builds, Allen/Heyboer. David Allen has developed some neat stuff for useful mods to common amps. Heyboer builds it. Multi-tap outputs for maximizing/matching outputs, transformers aimed at players that want to run 6L6 tubes in a Deluxe Reverb etc. Prices are right in line with stock replacements and the smoke and mirrors about "tone to die" for are removed.
A bit of what I said above is contrary to the Allen comments but his parts are part of an actual goal to change the purpose of an amplifier or the means to a specific end.
— Keep it Drippy Brothers and Sisters!
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SlacktoneDave
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
Posts: 657
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Posted on May 17 2014 08:10 AM
When I first talked to Sergio at Mercury about a transformer for my first Slacktone amp ( a modded old Super Reverb with a 2ohm) I needed a 4ohm for 2/12s but I also wanted a 2ohm tap so it could be more versatile if I had a problem while on tour. He advised not to get the tap as it would degrade sound performance. I got the tap, anyway. But, good to know that information.
My experiences noted in my previous posts are real. If someone has a need to save some money buying a different transformer, I understand. But, all transformers are not equal. It's not a phone charger that just converts energy.
Same goes with tubes. When I replaced the perfectly fine vintage USA el84 tubes with a set of vintage Mullard el84 in my 1963 Vox ac30 the way it ACTED and sounded was completely different. There again, the coupling between the guitar and speakers was extremely lively. The vocal like quality of the sustaining notes holding first-order harmonics ala-Brian May (non-surfing player). Oh well, a $7Chinese el34 could work if needed, but the performance would potentially be different.
YMMV
www.davewronski.com
www.slacktone.net
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