JTTurbo
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 43
Pittsburgh, PA
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 12:13 PM
We (The Turbosonics) are thinking of recording a CD of surf rock covers. We figure that there are obvious copyright issues with releasing covers of other band's material. Has anyone else released a CD with all covers, or a few covers, on it? How did you go about researching the copyrights and gaining permission to publish and/or sell? 
Our first thought is to just give the CD out for free, but there may be issues with that also. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. Is there a previous thread about this topic?
— Jason
the Turbosonics
"Playin' Surf at Maximum Impact"
Website
Twitter
Bandcamp
|
Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19339
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 12:14 PM
Moved to surf musician.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 01:18 PM
This is a good question and maybe someone has been through the licensing process. I have a few covers I want to put on a CD myself. I believe you have to contact the publisher of the artists song and pay 9.1 cents per unit so if you print 1000 CD's you will need to pay a royalty of $91.00 per song.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 03:43 PM
stratdancer wrote:
This is a good question and maybe someone has been through the licensing process. I have a few covers I want to put on a CD myself. I believe you have to contact the publisher of the artists song and pay 9.1 cents per unit so if you print 1000 CD's you will need to pay a royalty of $91.00 per song.
Tagged. I agree it is a good question & always wondered if it applies only to production with intent to sell or also to simply recording a cover, and giving a CD to a friend as a gift.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
Last edited: Feb 17, 2014 15:43:22
|
raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 552
Madison, WI
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 04:41 PM
On the one hand, a mechanical license is compulsory, which means that the original publisher cannot prevent you from making a cover of any published song (not sure about unpublished ones). On the other, the associated royalty is to be paid on every copy, regardless of use.
While I myself have not licensed songs, I have had to research the process. A musician who I used to handle online sales for (we had an agreement with an exit, and he took it after several years, still a friend) had a couple of cover tunes on one of his CDs. I encouraged him heavily to purchase licenses for them. Getting the licenses was easy through Harry Fox. What was a bit harder in this case was finding the correct information to get the license for. For one of the tunes, I easily found the writer's website, and his wife (very) cheerfully provided the information. The other was a lot harder to find. Since I was distributing through CD Baby (before they got sold), I ended up asking them to give me the info they had from a different cover version, which they did (they wouldn't, quite correctly, distribute unlicensed covers).
In practice, it's unlikely that anyone is going to know about a one-off CD you make for a friend. And it's probably unprofitable to come after you (but you never can tell).
As for free CDs, it's possible, but unlikely. For example, there's a radio station up in the Twin Cities area that occasionally does CDs for charity. What they do is get the artists/publishers/etc. to waive their performance and mechanical rights for a certain number of CDs. People are always bummed because the CDs sell out and aren't reprinted -- because they couldn't be without paying the royalties. And I'm pretty sure you need some sort of contract to put out other people's recordings anyway.
If you can get the publisher to waive their royalty rights, you could do it free, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I imagine you could go through the publisher directly, but using an agency is a lot simpler. Using Harry Fox, all my friend had to do besides supply the information, was to say how many copies he was making, and pay up.
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 04:48 PM
Badger wrote:
stratdancer wrote:
This is a good question and maybe someone has been through the licensing process. I have a few covers I want to put on a CD myself. I believe you have to contact the publisher of the artists song and pay 9.1 cents per unit so if you print 1000 CD's you will need to pay a royalty of $91.00 per song.
Tagged. I agree it is a good question & always wondered if it applies only to production with intent to sell or also to simply recording a cover, and giving a CD to a friend as a gift.
According to the law if you commit a performance of another artists song to a recorded media you have to get permission and a apply for a synchronized license. You can get permission from the publisher after the fact. If you intend to print this and give or sell the recording by law you must pay the royalty for each unit weather it's sold or given out. That's what I have researched. I have a really insane cover song I'm working on now that I will put to youtube for now and if I decide to release it I will go through the necessary hassles.
A google search linked me to cdbaby and a link to limelight which handles all that for you. http://members.cdbaby.com/license-cover-song.aspx
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
Last edited: Feb 17, 2014 16:52:56
|
Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 05:00 PM
stratdancer wrote:
According to the law if you commit a performance of another artists song to a recorded media you have to get permission and a apply for a synchronized license. You can get permission from the publisher after the fact. If you intend to print this and give or sell the recording by law you must pay the royalty for each unit weather it's sold or given out. That's what I have researched. I have a really insane cover song I'm working on now that I will put to youtube for now and if I decide to release it I will go through the necessary hassles.
Wow, lol, I'm really hosed now. I'm not tracking as to what difference there would be putting it up on youtube, or Joe Duffer using a backing track to put Penetration (or anything) to an MP3 file on a CD to give to one person. Not trying to be contrary; I'm all for intellectual property getting its due - and a bit dense maybe - but it's not adding up.
'Tis a puzzlement.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
|
raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 552
Madison, WI
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 05:05 PM
That is not correct.
Point 1: a sync license is not a mechanical license. A sync license is for using music in things like commercials or other media, and does not apply for things like mp3s or CDs.
Point 2: While it is correct to say that a sync license must be negotiated, a mechanical license is compulsory. In short, you can cover whatever you want, as long as you pay the mechanical license.
Point 3: It's correct to say you can obtain a license after the recordings are made. The license is necessary for distribution, not creation.
My experience with sync licenses is a bit more limited than with mechanical licenses, but I was an employee for a band which negotiated a sync license with the UW Athletic department (one of their songs was the theme song for the women's basketball team that year).
I'll also point out that I had to once sit through a very long demonstration for work of a rights-management system. It was pretty insane how some of the contracts between writers, artists, labels, and publishers can get. You pay your for your license, but after that there's a million ways it could get split up. I think the presenter didn't like that I was more interested in the contacts themselves than their system, which I only had to have demonstrated because the company I worked for was considering using the database/GUI technology their product used.
|
ColtsSurf
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 477
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 05:30 PM
It used to be that you could pay about $90 a cover song, assuming a 1,000 run CD. However, now there are a variety of media formats that require payment. On our recent CD, we had two covers and ten originals. Each of the covers cost several hundred dollars in royalty fees (I don't remember the exact fee, but think it was something like $300-$400 per song). We're done with covers.
— Paul
|
Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
|
Posted on Feb 17 2014 05:52 PM
Wow. Stuff that makes you go "hmmm."
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
|
JTTurbo
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 43
Pittsburgh, PA
|
Posted on Feb 18 2014 08:00 AM
Geez - I guess should have known it would be more complicated than I hoped. I have no problem giving the song-writers their due. I only fear that all the royalty payments will go to some publisher or record label, and none of the royalties actually will get to the actual artist.
By the book, I'm sure a live performance of a cover song is subject to similar royalties. Has anyone been approached by ASCAP or BMI, etc. inquiring about royalties? Some bars we've played have signs on the wall that say, "No Covers" because the bar does not have a royalty agreement.
— Jason
the Turbosonics
"Playin' Surf at Maximum Impact"
Website
Twitter
Bandcamp
|
caddady
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 802
N.E. Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 18 2014 08:07 AM
how much surf is now public domain, how do you know if the song is or is not?
then there is the tried and true rename the song and change it up, diff bridge, melody tweak.
will some one tell it to stop snowing.
— http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 18 2014 11:39 AM
A buddy of mine is the lead guitarist in Dark Side of the Moon a PF tribute band and they just finished a recording of CD they can sell at their shows. He said all royalties were paid by the record company that is doing the disc. He won't tell me how much it cost but because many of the songs go over 5 minutes it wasn't cheap. There is a surcharge on songs that go over the 5 minute mark.
I wonder if you can skirt some issues if you are doing an instrumental cover of a song that normally has vocals like I am doing right now???
Oh yeah, the long range snowcast has snow up until June for Ohio Caddady. lol!
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
|
Posted on Feb 18 2014 11:58 AM
stratdancer wrote:
Oh yeah, the long range snowcast has snow up until June for Ohio Caddady. lol!
Just tryin' to share... 
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
|
ColtsSurf
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 477
|
Posted on Feb 18 2014 03:40 PM
CD Baby is involved in the licensing of cover songs (for both the earner of income and the payer). Some interesting reading here:
http://members.cdbaby.com/royalty-collection.aspx
http://members.cdbaby.com/license-cover-song.aspx
— Paul
|
Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
|
Posted on Feb 18 2014 05:04 PM
Thanks Paul, interesting stuff.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
|
thomasd
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 94
Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted on Apr 22 2014 09:58 PM
We www.menfromsurf.com/ are doing a CD right now with some covers included. We're not printing that many copies up front so we don't expect to get noticed by the affected artists or publishers. If we get any letters demanding payment, we'll work out the royalties. I'm not to concerned right now, but if we ever start generating PolStar numbers there will be payments to be made. If we get some PolStar numbers then we'll have some money to pay!! The old "Chicken & Egg" theory of business.
— Rock
A Man from S.U.R.F.
http://menfromsurf.com
|
JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
|
Posted on Apr 22 2014 10:10 PM
thomasd wrote:
We www.menfromsurf.com/ are doing a CD right now with some covers included. We're not printing that many copies up front so we don't expect to get noticed by the affected artists or publishers. If we get any letters demanding payment, we'll work out the royalties.
Hint, don't write about it on the internet.
If they are burned and selling them for under $5, that is cool.
But if you are selling them for $10, getting them professionally pressed you have an obligation to the artists who wrote the song to license the songs from them. Why are you covering the songs? Hopefully because you like the song, and hopefully because you respect the person that wrote the song. If these are true, you owe it to those parties to license the song.
Also, don't post on SG101 about not paying royalties of an album you might have surf music covers on. It is really quite an uncool thing to do. Now, if it is just a for fun burned CD type thing, I don't really care. But if you want to make money off of it, you gotta pay. If you want to play songs for free, do them live. Don't expect to make money off of them for free.
Do you guys do originals? Do you want your songs ripped off?
|
ImaDirtyTroll
Joined: May 25, 2012
Posts: 39
|
Posted on Apr 22 2014 10:58 PM
caddady wrote:
how much surf is now public domain, how do you know if the song is or is not?
Pretty much none of it.
http://www.pdinfo.com/Copyright-Law/Copyright-Law.php
|
EJ
Joined: May 05, 2012
Posts: 351
Virginia Beach
|
Posted on Apr 22 2014 11:24 PM
I am in the licensing business and I can tell you that when your lively hood depends on royalties derived from your original efforts to feed your family and continued creative efforts it's a crime for someone else to capitalize on it no matter how big or small or until they get caught etc.I had someone once tell me that imitation was the highest form of flattery and I said ok where's my money.(Just a rant )I'm sorry I'm in a lawsuit right now over this very issue.  I do wonder wonder how they handled this back in 1st wave days though ..lots of great songs,covers,bands and labels.This internet business is quite tough though.
|
May Birthdays 
