andrew00
Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 34
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Posted on Jan 20 2014 06:17 PM
Hey,
I'm looking for a small practise amp to fit my tiny apartment and am keen on the Yamaha THR series.
There's two of interest - the THR 5 and the THR 10C - I was wondering if anyone had any opinion of the two for my usage.
I play either surf type music with clean guitars, reverb and tape echo.
I also play late 60's/early 70's garage rock - bands like the Velvet Underground and The Modern Lovers.
I find it hard to describe the sound b/c it's technically no clean, but I like things like a Fender clean breaking to overdrive and a bright chimey Vox type sound. So not 'clean' per se, just not distorted, I don't really like that 'rock' distorted sound.
The THR5 seems to have a Fender and a Vox mode so that's cool, and it's cheaper and smaller!
The THR10C seems to be suited to cleans so that's interesting, and it has a tape echo and tape+rev setting which is intriguing. However I'm concerned it'd be 'too' clean, i.e. as I said I don't technically like cleans, I like cleans that dirty up, and I don't like distortion.
Anyone used these two and have any thoughts? I'll post some examples of songs I like the tone of before that I'd like to be somewhat in the ballpark of. Essentially that 60s/70s guitar that is cleanish but breaking up, thinnish and trebly before things got too pedally heh.
Thanks in advance!
Tone examples
Your text to link here...
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 21 2014 07:22 AM
I have the THR10 which is pretty much the THR5 but with separate tone controls instead of blending type and if I remember correctly a USB/AUX control. If I had known what I know now I may have bought the THR5 because I haven't been able to get a good full bodied clean sound via USB direct input, it might be something I'm doing wrong but I tried for a week and come to the conclusion recording by microphone is probably the way to go. You mentioned Fender setting which on the THR5/THR10 is supposed to be based on a deeply lush Twin Reverb but in reality it sounds way too tinny and quiet, absolutely no headroom, if you touch the gain control you're into distortion way too quickly. A lot of surfers use Fender Bass amps for lead work so the bass setting comes to the rescue for clean sounds here also (THR10 Only), the reverb isn't deep but adequate enough and mixed with a little delay can sound Los Twang Marvels-ish or European Instro-ish. With a little patients you'll be able to find the sound you want by endless tweaking both amp and guitar controls.
The THR is an amazingly versatile gadget which becomes hard to live without. Don't expect too much of it, it's a jack of all trades and master of non.
I'll try to explain in real world speak. I'm a single guy in a small apartment who sometimes gets visited by a gang of landscapers when they are working in the area. They take the micky out of me something rotten, my hair, clothes, even my tea. They spotted the THR10 and demanded I play it! I ran a backing track through unit as well as my guitar and blasted them with a 180BPM surf tune to the best of my ability. I was expecting them to fall about laughing when I finished but instead they were astonished by the tiny box of magic spirits (not my guitar skills unfortunately lol) You see, once you turn it up loud the sound swells wide, sometimes you feel it coming from behind you, it a strange but impressive sensation.
If you go for the THR5 then beware that most settings are about distortion and you'll need to tweak. I haven't tried the THR10C but it would seem to be the better option in my opinion.
Last edited: Jan 21, 2014 08:16:48
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 21 2014 11:42 AM
I can't say about the THR10C, but I do have a THR10.
Supposeduly, the only difference between the 5 and the 10 is that the 10 has bass, acoustic, and flat settings, and some more knobs. Maybe some of the USB patch stuff is different. It was important to me being a one-man deal to get decent bass and jeys out of it.
In theory, they're modelling circuits rather than acoustics with it. THe idea is that the knobs are supposed tor eact like real knobs.
I probably play cleaner than most, and I love mine. I particularly love being able to crank the amp settings knobs, then dial back the volume (which sits outside the modelling stuff), so I can play after the kiddies are in bed.
I probably didn't touch the USB control panel for most of a year after getting it, and didn't really need to. I have recorded via the USB to Audacity on a MacBook Pro, and got good sound.
The effects are not that good, though I use the delay for a bit of slapback. I have better units for effects.
Last edited: Jan 21, 2014 11:43:52
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andrew00
Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 34
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Posted on Jan 21 2014 12:35 PM
Thanks for the reply.
Do you feel your 10 (which'll be the same for the 5 of course) can do 'bright clean'?
Aka can it do that thin jangley type clean - that Beatles etc kind of clean guitar, breaking up, with a bit of chime to it?
A lot of the samples I've seen online tend to be people being very flat clean or heavy rock, I can't find many people doing that classic 60s thin but not too overdriven, just enough to sparkle/jangle clean
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 08:21 AM
The original THR5/10 is optimised for crunchy/distorted rock. Anything between Bad Company/Free and say Metallica. Playing our kind of clean is doable though.
I'm a Beatles Jangley clean break up kind of fellow myself and I'd swop to a THR10C in a heartbeat if I could.
Last edited: Jan 22, 2014 08:22:34
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andrew00
Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 34
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 10:28 AM
Interesting, thanks for the thought.
My concern with the 10C was that it would be too clean or too dirty and wouldn't be able to get to that clean but break up bright stage.
Interesting that you feel it'd be great at that.
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 05:59 PM
I'm more of a flat clean guy myself (though I only use the flat model for keys, and then really only if I need more USB). I don't particularly find that my THR-10 is optimised for distortion, but that's not really what I'm seeking either. Sure, I've put all the dials up and done a bit, and got the expected results, but it's not where I am.
Currently, it's set on the acoustic setting with a Peavey EXP with a Fishman piezo in the bridge. Sounds nice, but not exactly what you're looking for.
I might have to try to have a go and see if I can get it to do what you're after. Then again, I might not have the right guitar for it anyway.
I did find this statement out there in the ether:
"The clean tones are great, especially when coupled with the nice FX. The Clean and Lead Models both get Voxy Chimey with single coils and a nice strat, which is good, and you can adjust how much chime (scooped compression) with the Master volume knob. The Master volume knob is quite magical and is where the final tone tweaking takes place."
Might work, though I thought the crunch model was supposed to be the Vox.
Might have to pull out the synsonics to get a short scale, too (I don't think a Jaguar is going to give the right sound). Keep the gain reasonable, and control the volume at the end. That might do it.
Here:
Your text to link here...
The crunch sample is closer the most you'll find, though it's probably still too mch distortion for what you're after. It does kinda suck that most of the reviews use more gain that I would.
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andrew00
Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 34
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 08:10 PM
Thanks for taking a look at it, it's most appreciated.
Aye it's an interesting one too, the 5 has the Vox setting which seems solid but actually a lot of that setting is in the thin+bright feel. Hard to say if the master gives the scoop as suggested or if it's just a bit of a square peg/round hole thing.
Likewise with the 10C though, does it give the required feel, as you said suggested if it just gives flat cleans to blues rock then it's not really the thing either.
Then again I wonder if putting something like a Tech21 Liverpool, aka Vox emulating pedal, in front might do the job better than expecting one of the THR's to be perfect.
It is really weird to me how all the demos, all the amp models etc, are just so distorted. Maybe I'm so outdated in what I like playing but I just feel it all sounds so terrible heh.
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 10:42 PM
OK, here's what I did:
Left the EXP as the guitar, and left it on the piezo (it's got a humbucker in the bridge, which isn't what we want). Set it for crunch, treble all the way up, mids all the way down, bass in the middle. No effects, gain halfway up, master half way up. Sounded a lot closer than the acoustic setting. Pulled a few points out of the bass because I was getting a bit of boom there that wasn't bad, just not what we are looking for. Ended up adding a couple points to the master to get it to where it would break up if I dug into it. Adjusted the gain to see what that would do. Got close, a lot more chime, but not quite there, either.
Next round, leave the setings, change to the synsonics. My first electric, and a very good clear clean tone for amps to color. Single coil in the bridge, short scale. Hmm. Add back in a little of the bass, it's getting thin. Mess with the gain to get it to the edge of breaking up. Not bad, but something's missing. Duh, how about using a pick. Gee that would help, but back off a bit on the gain. I think the sound is there in the middle. This pickup is a little hot for what we want, but somewhere between the EXP and synsonics is pretty close.
I imagine if I got the strat out of the TV room and tried for a more Shadowy sound, I might get closer to that. None of my herd is that close to a Ric. Those clips at the site I linked before are using Dearmonds in a Gretch, which is a lot closer than anything I have.
If you got the 10, you'd be able to force a scoop by turning down the mids, which got me closer faster than messing with the master.
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 11:08 PM
Tried one more thing before I go to bed. Hooked up the daughter's Jay Turser. 19.5" scale, a lot closer to what we're after. Not too bad. Pickup is still too hot to get things dialed in quite right. And using a 12-string (whcih I don't have) would probably help, too. But the fact that it's tuned higher compensated a bit.
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 07:34 AM
raito wrote:
I don't particularly find that my THR-10 is optimised for distortion.
I find that comment a tad misleading. The THR10C (C for Clean) was brought about because customers complained they couldn't get a good clean sound though their original THR5/10. In this video clip UK Yamaha THR series representative Julian Ward explains why the THR10C came into existence. HERE He admits the THR5/10 clean emulation (base on a Twin Reverb) didn't work correctly and that the unit is pretty much about distortion.
Anyway, THR is a Brit/Japanese collaboration and I'm a Brit who bought the unit from Andertons in Guildford so I must be right !!! 
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 07:41 AM
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 11:38 AM
As from today 23 Jan 2014 The THR10 gets a new firmware update with cleaner clean channel, dirtier dirt channels and better overall sound!
Get the inside dope
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 11:47 AM
Let me clarify. For my use, I don't find the THR10 to optimised for distortion. But I generally play with the gain down, and get volume through the post-amp volume. If I'm recording, I get a louder track by raising the level in the DAW rather than with the amp settings. So I'm down where the sound is clean. Maybe a better wya to say it is that the amp might be 2/3 about distortion, but since I play around in the other third, it doesn't bother me.
After listening to the Anderton's clip,I have to disagree. He didn't say that the clean on the THR10 didn't work correctly. In fact, he said that the sound is what they were going for (a Twin Reverb). Nor would I characterize his comments as the unit being about distortion, but about range of tone. He says that the C and X versions are about taking either the low-gain or high-gain parts of the THR10 and expanding them in order to be able to make subtle distinctions within the gain range (which admittedly, the THR10 does not do, nor was it meant to).
And I thought the C was for 'classic', rather than clean. But the guy in the clip seems to push the word 'combo'. 
Anyway, at least I was prompted to listen to the clips for the THR10, C, and X in order to figure out what the heck the amp models are suppsoed to be. It does explain why I spend most of my time on clean (Fender Deluxe) and crunch (Vox) (unless I'm over on the ACO/Bass/Flat side for some reason).
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 12:15 PM
Fair enough raito!
I don't care anymore.. we got the firmware update and hopefully I can quit whinging about it on-line.  
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 12:50 PM
There's a firmware update?
And off I go to find it...
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andrew00
Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 34
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 07:04 PM
Out and about today I passed a guitar shop and popped in, lo and behold they had a THR5 and a THR10, not a THR10C alas! I also tried the amps alongside a Voc AC4 (Cream) and a Vox Pathfinder 15R.
The Pathfinder was really good, esp as it's inexpensive but the AC4 was on another level and gave a great brittle sound, it's a tube amp so that helped.
I then tried the THR10 and THR5. I found after a few minutes messing about that I could dial in a pretty decent Vox sound, esp as I was just playing one, on both amps. Enough certainly that I felt warmly towards the Yamaha's.
I'd say the 10 was ever so slightly nicer than the 5 as it has more tonal control and the 5 has just a tone knob. But dialling in a combo of the Master, Gain and Tone knobs gave me a tone on the 5 that was 95% of the one of the 10.
At the end I played a bit from a song I used to play and it sounded just like I remembered it on the Vox AC15C1 I used to have. This sold me on the Yamaha amps as a concept, esp as they're so small!
The annoying thing was that they didn't have the THR10C's so I couldn't directly compare that to the 10/5, which was annoying as it means I need to go back there next week to try it when it comes in. Pretty sure I'll be walking out with one of them though.
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 08:42 PM
According to the Anderton's clips, the THR10 does an AC30 as crunch, and the THR10C does a Matchless DC30 as Class A.
Where did you have those knobs to get the sound you wanted?
I'm glad you got to try one out.
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andrew00
Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 34
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Posted on Jan 24 2014 07:24 AM
I believe it was something with the master and tone knobs nearly all the way up and the gain/volume riding so they gave just enough break up. The 10 was more easy, more treble, less bass and mid etc heh, but the 5 was close enough.
I don't know much about the Matchless DC30. The AC15 I had I know well and I know the DC30 is based on the Vox AC30. Are they sufficiently similar?
I.E. If I were to grab the 10C would I expect it to dial in the Vox feel on the Matchless channel?
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Jan 24 2014 08:01 AM
andrew00 wrote:
I believe it was something with the master and tone knobs nearly all the way up and the gain/volume riding so they gave just enough break up. The 10 was more easy, more treble, less bass and mid etc heh, but the 5 was close enough.
I don't know much about the Matchless DC30. The AC15 I had I know well and I know the DC30 is based on the Vox AC30. Are they sufficiently similar?
I.E. If I were to grab the 10C would I expect it to dial in the Vox feel on the Matchless channel?
The new v.2 firmware update appears to be a major upgrade so the THR5/10 v.2 is now a separate model on the Yamaha support page. I dare say it will be box marked and sold as a v.2. Just saying, it might be wise to be aware of what version you are road testing in the shop. I have already updated my THR10 but I have some work to do on my guitar before I can try it out. Will let you know my findings soon.
I'll be heading into Guildford Andertons tomorrow with a friend who is buying a Zoom R24 (guitar sounds galore!)HERE If the sound booth is clear I'll check out the THR10C, although Andertons gets busy on Saturdays I'm still hopeful.
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