Anonymous
Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180
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Posted on Apr 17 2006 05:29 PM
Is it just me, or are a lot of old recordings (I can think of some of Ventures albums and Santo & Johny also comes to mind) where the tunings are thrown off from song to song. What I mean is that one song will be in standard and another will be down or up a half step. Happening a few times throughout the album. Maybe I am going nuts, or just don't have a great ear, sometimes the tunings seem just slightly off, like between steps.
Has anyone else ever noticed this? If so, is this because the recordings were not put at the original speeds they were recorded? Or did they just use alternate tunings depending on the song? Its not the biggest deal in the world but it makes playign along with a record a pain the ass.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19279
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Apr 17 2006 05:45 PM
Yes, this is a common phenomena. Penetration, for example, is widely thought to be sped up. Why? Well who knows now. Maybe they had to meet the all important 2:20 time for songs on the radio of the day. Maybe it just sounded better sped up.
I've had similiar problems trying to learn songs by The Atlantics, The Fender IV, and other 60's era bands.
I would guess that the recording itself was tinkered with, as most bands probably stayed in standard tuning. However, guys like Randy Holden of the Fender IV have said they played in D (whether he meant drop-D or everything tuned down isn't clear).
Just another challenge to learning the classics!
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PolloGuitar
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 5095
San Francisco
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Posted on Apr 17 2006 06:05 PM
When we had records, at least you could adjust the speed so you wouldn't have to retune your guitar, like you have to with CDs. But, now with ProTools and similar programs, it is pretty easy to retune the songs, and keep them the same speed, to learn 'em.
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Apr 17 2006 07:02 PM
Dick Dale's "SurfBeat" (from the Surfer's Choice LP) always used to drive me crazy...I just knew it was in the Key of E...but, on the LP, it sounds like it's in the Key of F...or at least the low root note that Dick plays sounds like F.
anyway, maybe Dick's dad had the tape machine running fast, or maybe my parent's quadrophinic console turntable 8-track thing was out of whack. Or maybe I just didn't know what I was doing...
anyways, I'd always have to tune up 1/2 step for Surf Beat...
-dp
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CaptainSpringfield
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 4387
Under the Sun
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Posted on Apr 17 2006 07:37 PM
Brian
However, guys like Randy Holden of the Fender IV have said they played in D (whether he meant drop-D or everything tuned down isn't clear).
I read an interview where Randy Holden said he tuned everything down one step, rather than just dropping the D.
"Surf Beat" and the Chandelles' "El Gato" are fun where it's obviously played on the low E but it sounds closer to F. That has to come from speeding up the master tape, right? I mean, who tunes up?
-Warren
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RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2346
San Jose, Ca.
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Posted on Apr 18 2006 01:12 AM
Often they sped stuff up, or slowed it down in
the studio. I think the lack of electronic tuners
had a lot to do with it, too. Back in the sixties,
we'd all tune up to whoever's guitar seemed
to be the least out of tune, not to any standard.
Tuning forks weren't usually around as a point of
reference. Once in a blue moon we'd tune to a
piano (if there happened to be one at the gig),
but they weren't always in tune, either.
Bob S.
— Bob
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Apr 18 2006 04:32 AM
I would think that's the most common thing. hell, I usually go 'gimme an A' and tune to whoever hits the A string first. helluva lot faster and more convenient than a tuning apparatus too.
tuning to a piano seems likely too, esp. if they'r e going to use the piano  would they have a piano standing around in the studio back than? WR
RobbieReverb
Often they sped stuff up, or slowed it down in
the studio. I think the lack of electronic tuners
had a lot to do with it, too. Back in the sixties,
we'd all tune up to whoever's guitar seemed
to be the least out of tune, not to any standard.
Tuning forks weren't usually around as a point of
reference. Once in a blue moon we'd tune to a
piano (if there happened to be one at the gig),
but they weren't always in tune, either.
Bob S.
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1335
Escondido, CA
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Posted on Apr 18 2006 08:39 AM
I think a lot of the times it was the tape speed changed on purpose to make the final result sound a little faster and tighter.
Good ol' Randy Holden, that's my excuse for tuning my guitar to D. Sounds way better.
Ran
— The Scimitars
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25549
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Apr 18 2006 03:55 PM
Ran's right, at least for what I've heard about the Pyramids and the Penetration sharpness, because it's not quite F, it's like 2/3rds of the way there.
The Recording was a bit loose, so they sped up the tape, after it was recorded, when mastering it to vinyl, to give it a tighter feel.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Apr 18 2006 10:31 PM
man, i'm going to speed my stuff up so it doesn't sound so crappy, too!
-dp
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Anonymous
Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180
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Posted on Apr 19 2006 06:11 PM
^^ there's an idea! 
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90
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 91
Florianopolis SC Brazil
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Posted on May 16 2006 04:45 PM
How about the Centurions? Was that stuff slowed down or just tuned down all the way to D?
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25549
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on May 19 2006 07:20 PM
Good question 90.
I'd like to know too, as I'd like to cover a few of their tunes someday.
Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but didn't Randy Holden, and the FederIV
tune down also?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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voodoodentists
Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 62
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Posted on Aug 01 2006 11:39 AM
The fender club says that Dick Dale's early recordings were running at the wrong speed when recorded and it made some things sound a quarter step higher.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11052
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Aug 01 2006 01:05 PM
It's a bit pricey, but if you're serious about learning lots of songs, this is an invaluable aid:
Alesis Playmate, adjusts pitch, key, and speed with turn of a knob.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19279
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Aug 01 2006 01:38 PM
You can also do everything that gizmo can do if you have a home computer and some software like CoolEdit, ProTools, etc, etc, etc. Slowing things down while keeping the pitch the same is a BIG help when learning songs with tricky fast parts.
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Aug 01 2006 02:11 PM
Brian
Slowing things down while keeping the pitch the same is a BIG help when learning songs with tricky fast parts.
yes it is, I do it with windows media player if need be - a damn fine piece of software! 
WR
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
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90
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 91
Florianopolis SC Brazil
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Posted on Aug 02 2006 09:07 AM
The amazing slow downer is great. Some guitar books by Hal Leonard give you a version (with limitations) on the cd that comes with them.
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http://gianninisupersonic.blogspot.com
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Aug 02 2006 02:35 PM
90
The amazing slow downer is great. Some guitar books by Hal Leonard give you a version (with limitations) on the cd that comes with them.
"the amazing slow downe"r - that rings a bell, I think I had that on my now gone laptop. also one called "slow down moses" both where free versions from the net, with limitations. worked well though.
WR
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
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90
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 91
Florianopolis SC Brazil
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Posted on Aug 02 2006 05:50 PM
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