I have a complicated relationship with my strat - its my #1 for any sort of non-surf jam session, but I struggle to get a surf tone that I like from it. Clean Hendrix, Clapton, Knopfler, or Marvin...no problem. But when it comes to Surf Rider or Baja, I hate my tone. Problem solved when I play my Jag or Jazzmaster..and that is not a surprise as I like the tone of those distinct guitars (especially with flats through a reverb tank). I should note that I can get a pretty good Dick Dale tone...and also on tunes that require sustain (eg Spanish Blue, Fadeaway). Its the punchy tones that I feel are lame.

But I know others love their strats and I am really blown away by this performance of Los Twang Marvels:

Los Twang Marvels Live

So what is the secret? I feel like I should be able to get a good surf sound out of my strat..and since do play surf tunes with my classic rock cover bands, I need to try harder.

A couple of notes on my gear. I am playing a 2000ish American Series currently with AVRI 57/62 pups/pickgaurd assembly. I use very light round wound strings (a strike against me, I know) and the trem is flush with the body. I have a reissue Fender tank and play through a reissue Deluxe Reverb and SilverFace Princeton reverb...both with 6V6s. I am sure I could do better with fatter strings and/or flats, but I can't do cliche rock and country licks with anything bigger.

Last edited: May 28, 2013 12:41:14

this might not be your situation but
what gauge pick do u use? i am no expert in either surf or los twang marvels
but i played a bit of rockabilly and i felt i lacked the punch
and bite i heard everyone of the pro`s had. i went to thicker picks
and picking as close to the bridge as possible, helped me allot!

btw very cool performance of the los twang marvels

Last edited: May 28, 2013 13:43:39

Thanks for the thoughtful replies..much appreciated!

I have no doubt that thicker strings would help, but I must say I am able to great good tone from my other surf guitars using 9s and 10s (though I confess to preferring flats..I usually take a set of 12s and move everything down a position, giving me light gauge flats with an unwound g). Wish I could play with a heavier set, but I hurt myself pretty badly a few years ago and am lucky to play at all now.

I use a range of picks...for years I used nothing but 1mm, but feel like I can trem pick better with 0.6mm and the thinner pick seems better balanced given my light strings. I will experiment.

Ryan, thanks for the tips on contacting Alex and for info surrounding his setup. I did notice the JM neck in a vid. He has a couple of pedals for the Brazil show..maybe a Dano Cool Cat echo, a Boss tuner, and I am not sure what the blue one is. I have wondered if compression or a boost would help my tone. Obviously, Alex uses his fingers a fair bit...something I should do more often. Also, the the pups in his white strat are raised my higher than mine..something else to experiment with. Maybe a set of Dean Markley strings are in order..I generally have Ernie Balls or D'addarios on my strat.

I was just teaching myself Balihai from the concert...that and Samba Estrella are especially inspiring to me. Love the Link Wray covers too. Such a good looking band!

It would sure be great if you could just get the same gear and sound like your hero, but we all know that isn't the case. I noticed Alex was using just fingers, no pick at times and it sounds the same. And he sounds pretty much the same when using a Jaguar. It always comes down to the hands, and the head telling them what to do.

I played around tonight and may have improved my tone a bit. For one, I raised my pickups (they were backed way off) and I think I like the effect - at least for surf. Its pretty in your face now, so well see what happens next time I play with my band. Seems thicker anyway.

2nd, seeing Alex playing with the neck pickup on most tunes kind of opened my eyes to what is possible with that pickup. Generally, I wasn't using the neck for surf, but rather the middle or bridge. I think I have recalibrated my ears a bit and look forward to using the neck more. I just need to remember that its not a jaguar and not a jazzmaster.

Stormtiger

And he sounds pretty much the same when using a Jaguar. It always comes down to the hands, and the head telling them what to do.

I even saw him with a Jazzmaster once or twice and there was no big difference. It really comes down to his playing, and I think one of the key elements is the position of the right hand and the pick. The picking hand does not rest on the guitar (except when the strings are muted) and it seems like Alex keeps the edge of the pick parallel to the strings most of the time and hits the strings very close to the bridge.

For myself it is much more difficult to play in this position, but I guess with a lot of practice you could get a much better control over the guitar...

Concerning the gear (which is not that important): I have usually seen him play with a tank, a Compressor and some tape echo emulation. With a bit of patience you may even read his settings on this video from his stint with John Blair, although he was using a Jaguar then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr9qJrOaP30

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!

Simon, thanks for that link...just got around to watching it. Wish I could read those settings! Doesn't appear to be turned on for that song. I have always been curious about the Space Echo, but might just have to find a used CS3 to see what it can do.

Alex's pedals

I have been playing his Balihai nonstop since learning it the other day..there are some passages where it get better tone by playing near the bridge..seems to add clarity for shimmery chords.

I have been trying and trying to break my bad habit touching the strings with the pinky of my picking hand. Hard to change..at least at my age.

So you have seen Alex play live? Lucky!

*6V6

Simon, thanks for that link...just got around to watching it. Wish I could read those settings! Doesn't appear to be turned on for that song. ...
So you have seen Alex play live? Lucky!

You're welcome!
I think I "only" saw Los Twang! Marvels two or three times, when they lived in Berlin ( ), but I always was in the first row and paid close attention (makes no sense to go to a concert and stay in the back!). As far as I remember the only effect that was turned on/off was the (rarely used) amp tremolo, compressor and delay were always on, BUT the delay was usually tapped in according to the songs tempo and its volume is set rather low (which in combination makes it barely audible).

But maybe he turned off the compressor because he was playing rhythm on that John Blair video?

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!

A very interesting discussion. I've been a huge fan of Alex's playing for many years now, but I've only gained a greater appreciation for his tone more recently. I tend to prefer a bit more grit in the guitar tone, and Alex tends to keep it very clean. However, the more I listened, the more I realized how full and unique his tone truly is.

You can tell that he's back to the original American Standard neck in this video (he indeed had a Jazzmaster neck on this guitar when I saw LTM play in Italy in '09). I talked to him about that guitar at some length back then, but I'm forgetting much of it now. It started life as an AmStd model, but I'm pretty sure it was repainted white at some point. I think he may have also replaced the original 2-post trem with a 6-post trem, and I think the pickups have been replaced, though I don't remember with what. Hopefully Alex can give us the details.

I think the key to achieving his tone in this video is a very dynamic right hand touch. Alex is caressing the strings much of the time, a really soft touch with his right hand. Strats respond incredibly well to the soft touch, and the notes often simply blossom when you do that (especially with thick strings, I think). To my ears it sounds like that Twin isn't turned up all that loud - probably 4-5 at most - and so has a very clean sound. And he clearly doesn't have a ton of reverb on the guitar - my guess is that the mix is at 4 at most, and I very much doubt that dwell and tone are above 5. The echo pedal adds a lot to the ambience of the tone, and he's got a really nice mix of reverb and echo where they kinda blend into each other. Notice also that he's constantly manipulating and readjusting the tone controls, the pickup switch, and almost certainly the volume knob as well. This is something that Jeff Beck does with mastery, continuous adjustment of the controls to draw out many colors of the sound.

That's my take on what's going on with Alex's tone. But of course, by FAR the most vital ingredient to the tonal equation is Alex's mind, heart and hands. Having spent some time with Alex in '09, he's a really gentle and kind soul, and I think you can absolutely hear that in his tone. It's never aggressive, never pissed off, it's just joyful and full of life. Oh, and then there's that minor matter that Alex is seriously one of the most musically talented individuals that I've ever met or even seen play!

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Last edited: May 30, 2013 14:49:41

Ivan,

Thank you for contributing to this post...I think there are many in our community who consider you a local authority on all things stratocaster! I would very interested in knowing if you have gear secrets for live playing..pedals, boosts, etc...or are you confident that you can get your tone on any borrowed strat straight through the tank and fender amp?

Very nice words regarding Alex and his playing..sounds like a great guy! Interesting how much he has modded his strat (gear must mean something to him!). Pretty sizable investment. I guess my strat must be similar in that its an American Series and I have tried several pickup sets (57/62s right now). I have tried several necks, including a MIJ Jazzmaster neck and Jagmaster conversion neck, but am also back to the one it came with (nice neck). I have the 2 post trem with modern saddles...have been contemplating putting stamped saddles in just for fun (and maybe a new black too, not sure).

There has been a lot of mention about a players tone as a function of his personality and/or skill. I think that is hard to dispute, but also take the position that most of us could play basic surf licks on the same gear and sound very similar. I don't mean we would sound the same, but I think that its not so hard to copy the essence of what is going on, given the same gear. I could be way off here, but I feel like Ivan or Alex could play Miserlou on Dick Dale's gear and sound remarkably like Dick Dale would on the same gear. Not exact, but respectably similar. That is really the level of tone I was after in the post...a workable strat tone that is full, but with clarity, but at the same time has some character. As much as I would LOVE to sound exactly like Alex (or Ivan), that wasn't really my absolute goal.

But take any angle you like - this is an interesting post and I have enjoyed the comments and advice.

Last edited: May 30, 2013 20:05:51