raito wrote:

Q: What defines a genre?

A: A musical genre is defined by a set of conventions, whether those conventions be based on music theory, orchestration, tone, subject matter, names of pieces, etc., etc., etc.

This is because not all performances that fall within a genre include all the conventions of the genre. If the set of conventions is that small, the genre will not survive. There would be only do many pieces that could be written before the pieces begin to all sound the same.

A listener fits a performance into a genre based on his perception of the number and relative subjective strength of the performance's conventions. Thus, two lsiteners may place the same performance into different genres. And some performances pull from enough different genres that putting them into a single genre is difficult.

It is also true that several genres may use a particular convention. This is partly why genre is subjective. Using a partiular convention never positively identifies a genre. In this way, genres overlap.

If a performance uses a particular convention, it edges closer to being in that genre. If not, it edges away. It's a sort of weighted sum of the conventions that puts a performance into a genre. The catch is that we all have our own weighting systems.

For myself, I simply do not believe that any single convention is so central to a genre that a performance cannot be of that genre without it (though those guys who do ragas and flamenco probably disagree with that).

So because there is a Surf Convention
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/17547/
does that make it a genre?

Jeff(bigtikidude)

killbabykill34 wrote:

I am not going to try to find too much rhyme or reason to this. I will say this, Alice in Chains released Facelift a good while before the big 'grunge' boom. It was marketed heavily as a metal album, just as they were marketed as a metal band. It wasn't until the 'boom' that the marketing teams decided to repackage how they sold the band, in order to cash in. It was a wise decision.

Oh I didn't know that. I knew that they used to be straight-up hair metal (spelling it Alice 'n Chainz) but I thought Facelift was their first album after hopping bandwagons. It would make the album title very appropriate, anyway.

Hot Summer Comes Again!
Let's Go Beach! Let's Go Beach!

and everyone knows that instrumental surf and Lady Gaga are the exact same genre too:

Last edited: Jun 12, 2012 15:06:13

JakeDobner wrote:

When asked about what genre a band I like is, I generally just shrug my shoulders and say "good music?". Now the good music part is completely my opinion and won't be good music to other people. Sort of like genres!

This is a completely useless way of talking about music, though. I understand completely about how labels can negatively affect bands and how people go overboard with flavor of the month micro-sub-genres, but describing bands isn't a bad thing. Genres are descriptions, not really fast and hard taxonomic classifications. That's why people argue about what they are so much.

How would you describe surf? "Rock music inspired by early 60s instrumental rock and roll with clean, reverby guitar melodies" or some vague approximation of that is what I'd say. Would you use that entire quotation to describe every surf band? Is that preferrable to calling their music "surf"?

Calling Slacktone "a surf band" and calling The Ghastly Ones "a surf band" is an inadequate way to describe their music but it gets a general point across. Using a genre in your description isn't a bad thing, but using a genre as a description isn't so good. If I asked you to describe a band and you responded with "good music?" I would assume that A) I had offended you in some way and you really don't want to talk to me or B) you have some mild form of autism and have difficulty describing things. I kinda get where you're coming from, but refusing to describe music altogether is just baffling to me.

Hot Summer Comes Again!
Let's Go Beach! Let's Go Beach!

dp wrote:

"Dick Dale is NOT Surf!"

So says Dick if you ask Him,
but then again, if you look at his Bio,
he's the king of the surf guitar, and the inventor of it.
yeeeeesh.
Identity Crisis?

Jeff(bigtikidude)

I don't refuse to describe it to everyone. I know my 'audience'. Using genres and other bands as references is what I refuse to do. You can't presume the person you are talking to knows anything about the genre or other bands. One cannot use terms technical terms such as "reverby", stuff like that causes people to scratch their heads. I also never try to convert anyone, if they ask I will make them a CD, but I'm not going to compare it to anything or even attempt to give them the wrong impression about the band.

Some music easily falls into a genre and you can describe it as such, but a lot of it does not. Some bands define a genre, other defy a genre.

Daikaiju is modern-surf-flavored-Ninja-Grunge... duh...

rem & pearl jam fit neatly into the "mumble rock" category.

The Reventlos play Afro-Billy-Death-Surf.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

dp wrote:

There's no way THIS is surf:

I dunno - sounds pretty surfy to me. I can picture some fast waves and bitchin' wipeouts when I hear this.

He who dies with the most tubes... wins

Surf Daddies

Last edited: Jun 14, 2012 12:53:07