Shoutbox

sysmalakian: Birthday month starts now!
362 days ago

diceophonic: Vampiro Classics 2024 reissue
343 days ago

SabedLeepski: Sunburn Surf Fest for some scorching hot surf music: https://sunb...
300 days ago

skeeter: I know a Polish sound guy.
228 days ago

skeeter: I know a Czech one too!
228 days ago

PatGall: Surfybear metal settings
148 days ago

Pyronauts: Happy Tanks-Kicking!
126 days ago

midwestsurfguy: Merry Christmas!
95 days ago

sysmalakian: HAPPY NEW YEAR!
88 days ago

SabedLeepski: Surfin‘ Europe, for surf (related) gigs and events in Europe Big Razz https://sunb...
49 days ago

Please login or register to shout.

Current Polls

No polls at this time. Check out our past polls.

Current Contests

No contests at this time. Check out our past contests.

Donations

Help us meet our monthly goal:

100%

100%

Donate Now

Cake March Birthdays Cake
SG101 Banner

SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Permalink How do you write a good surf song?

New Topic
Goto Page: 1 2 Next

We've got some fantastic songwriters on here. How do you go about writing a good song? I'd like to try my hand at it someday.

Edited to add (now that I'm not on a phone)

What I mean is what process do you go through? Where do you find the idea, and then how do you put it together? Again, I'm amazed at the fantastic songs that are being put out and am curious about your method for writing. How do you come up with the name? Etc.

Will

"You're done, once you're a surfer you're done. You're in. It's like the mob or something. You're not getting out." - Kelly Slater

The Luau Cinders

Last edited: Nov 23, 2011 07:57:19

A "good surf song' is completely subjective. However, my writing is based around jamming. I play and eventually come across a good melody. When I do I just try to see where it leads through either jamming alone or with my band. Sometimes the melody will come and I realize that it fits well with other riffs that I have had on hold for some time. The names, on the other hand, come from many different places. Somtimes they are just based on the way a song makes me feel. Other times they are based upon the samples we choose to use in the song.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

Doomsday Cults qualifies! All I've heard yet....will grab the album when I get a little extra cash.

Ok.....if you wrote a BAD surf song, you can talk about that one too. Big Grin

Will

"You're done, once you're a surfer you're done. You're in. It's like the mob or something. You're not getting out." - Kelly Slater

The Luau Cinders

Although it's yet to be proved to anyone here, I've come up with a few interesting tunes using some deliberate techniques. Some of them may be obvious.

One is to stick to a basic song structure: verse, chorus, middle eight (or bridge). An intro and outro usually follow relatively easily. This is the structure of Pipeline, for example. Intro, chorus, repeat (with variation), bridge, intro, chorus.

I was listening to an interview with Trevor Horn (some big-time producer) and he says that a song should have at least four or five ideas in it. A verse is one, a chorus is another, a middle eight is one, intro, outro. He says a lot of people come to him with verse and chorus and that's it.

Another technique that works for me is to attempt to tell a story. I come up with a theme for the song and let that inspire me. Since there are no words, the story doesn't have to be expressed eloquently, but it's there in the back of your mind suggesting musical themes.

For example, the song could be about breaking off your key in the lock of your door. Everything's fine, la-la-la (verse), then, snap! (percussive hit?) Everything goes wrong (chorus). Rising anxiety. How will I feed the cat (bridge)? It doesn't matter what the story is, it just guides you. Like any story, it should have a beginning, middle, and end.

Another thing that's been working for me lately is collaboration. A friend and I have been exchanging song fragments. One of us usually comes up with a riff and then, exhausted, can't figure out what to do with it. The other is then free to be inspired by the riff and can usually come up with a melody or whatever's missing to fill it out. I find that it's easy to improve other people's crappy riffs than my own since I'm not as attached to them.

RK

RK wrote:

Another technique that works for me is to attempt to
tell a story. I come up with a theme for the song and
let that inspire me.

I second that emotion...

Shoot the Pier on Bandcamp
Shoot the Pier on Reverb Nation
Shoot The Pier on Facebook
We are on Instagram under "@shootthepiersurfband"

My Country EP ... Florida Dirt Fire
https://floridadirtfire.bandcamp.com/album/florida-dirt-fire

My French Love Songs ... I really needed a change...
www.lonelyrose.bandcamp.com

Great question. As I've gotten better, lots of melodic fragments have started coming out of my guitar as I noodle, from where I don't know. I suppose some are phrases from classical music or European folk melodies (redundant in many instances).

I'm going to start writing these down. It's a start.

Right now, I'm listening to rain pouring down on my roof. How can I turn that into music? There are several storm passages in symphonic music with phrases almost everyone now recognizes as a rain storm. I'll play them for ideas.

It's the same with waves crashing on the shore, or onto rocks, the sound of rolling waves out in deep water. Ever notice how different the shore sounds in the morning compared to the hot afternoon? Or during a rain storm? My favorite is how the shore sounds after dark.

The idea is that musical themes can actually sound like something real or even living, or they can evoke emotions that convey the ideas you have. Listen to Beethoven's Symphony No. 6 to hear what I'm describing.

If I ever write a surf album, it will have to be about a day at the beach from dawn to after dark. Lapping waves on an empty beach at dawn, the rising sun, shore birds, laughing people, surfing, beach volleyball, an afternoon rains storm, dancing, more surfing, sunset, a bonfire, lapping waves on the empty beach at night, the new dawn. I can almost hear it in my head but I don't know enough to write it. I'm sure I'll need to collaborate on it.

I wrote this to inspire. If anyone want to do it before I can, feel free. I wants to hear it even if I'm never good enough to compose, record or perform it.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Nov 23, 2011 09:37:54

Staredge wrote:

Doomsday Cults qualifies! All I've heard yet....will
grab the album when I get a little extra cash.

Ok.....if you wrote a BAD surf song, you can talk about
that one too. Big Grin

Hahaha...Suppose the Doomsday Cults Were Right is a fine example of my quilting technique for writing. That song is a mish-mash of a handful of riffs that were written over about one years time. I finally came up with a final piece and the others just fell into place.

I am not sure that I should even be commenting on this thread. Frankly, very few of our tunes follow the typical verse/chorus/verse type of structure.

I am soon going to challenge myself to write in this fashion. However, this will probably be for a solo ep I hope to release and it will probably be a vocal record.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

A few threads on the subject:

http://surfguitar101.com/ygroup/thread/1689/#p1689
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/74/?page=1
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/621/

Danny Snyder

Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF
_
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I'm back playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Last edited: Nov 23, 2011 09:50:11

To me the best songs have simple melodies. I usually start with a melodic section and then develop it into a song.

My test for it is can you sing it. Take for example something like "pipeline" or even "wipeout". You don't need a guitar to make the melody ... you can just sing them.

Noel wrote:

If I ever write a surf album, it will have to be about
a day at the beach from dawn to after dark. Lapping
waves on an empty beach at dawn, the rising sun, shore
birds, laughing people, surfing, beach volleyball, an
afternoon rains storm, dancing, more surfing, sunset, a
bonfire, lapping waves on the empty beach at night, the
new dawn.

That was beautiful man.
Do it! Just start, with whatever.
Great thread, BTW.

I realize the opening question was about GREAT songs, but anyways:
As a gremmie myself, I sometime have a melody in my head, then I pick up the guitar and something completely different comes out.
I do not insist, I flow with it. Interesting stuff then happens. Smile

A really good summary on how to write a surf song was done by Ferenc and posted in SG101 back in 2006. I think this is the link to the story by Ferenc. There was also a 10 page thread on this topic listed below.

http://surfguitar101.com/news/story/31/

http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/74/?page=1#p1064

Last edited: Nov 23, 2011 11:29:16

i like to write regular songs with lyrics and everything and then play the vocal melody instrumentally so i end up with this instrumental song with secret lyrics

http://dinosaurghost.bandcamp.com/
http://sixtycyclehum.podbean.com

Well SURE......I COULD have used the search function!!!!! (I was on a phone!!!!! (And yes, I know it still works there but I cuss too bloody much as it is))

Embarassed

Will

"You're done, once you're a surfer you're done. You're in. It's like the mob or something. You're not getting out." - Kelly Slater

The Luau Cinders

One thing I'd like to add to that scree is the need for a strong work ethic. If you should get writer's block or find yourself in a rut, or if you find you're repeating yourself (this happens when you start to get to song #100 or so), sometimes you can't wait for a visit from the muse, you have to just sit down and work it like a 9 - 5 job, bang that sucker out. When this happens, I find I'm usually not happy with what happens, but then I'll listen back a few weeks later and really like it.

guitarslinger1 wrote:

A really good summary on how to write a surf song was
done by Ferenc and posted in SG101 back in 2006.
http://surfguitar101.com/news/story/31/

Buy Speed of Dark @ Bandcamp
Buy Spin the Bottle @ Bandcamp
My Blog- Euro Tour Blog
Pool Boys on Spotify
INSTAGRAM
Frankie & The Pool Boys on FB
Pollo Del Mar on FB
DJ Frankie Pool Boy on North Sea Surf Radio

I'd love to, but I'll need a LOT of help. I don't know music theory, composition, harmony or arrangment. At best all I could do now would be to find things that sound like the images or feelings I'm trying to evoke, make them surfy-sounding (like The Force of Gravity is based on Dvorzak's New World Symphony http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Surf-Guitar-101-Convention/270722858862) and tie them together with a musical bridge theme, like Charles Ives did. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKiDlPrK5zY
but even more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qPZbHNuZzI&feature=related
and I'd use lots of recognizable pieces of surf music.

I'm still learning to play well enough to be ready for my first public performance. But if anyone wants to work on this idea I'd be excited to a part of it.

DreadInBabylon wrote:

Noel wrote:

If I ever write a surf album, it will have to be about
a day at the beach from dawn to after dark. Lapping
waves on an empty beach at dawn, the rising sun, shore
birds, laughing people, surfing, beach volleyball, an
afternoon rain storm, dancing, more surfing, sunset, a
bonfire, lapping waves on the empty beach at night, the
new dawn.

That was beautiful man.
Do it! Just start, with whatever.
Great thread, BTW.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Nov 23, 2011 16:18:59

Hell if I know..........sorry. ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Noel wrote:

I'd love to, but I'll need a LOT of help... At
best all I could do now would be to find things that
sound like the images or feelings I'm trying to evoke,
make them surfy-sounding

Sure you'll need help, but IMHO that's a great place to start. Really. A lot of proficient guitarists and musicians lack imagination, and after years of perfecting abilities, something is gone (not always of course). Technique will come in time, lay out some tunes meanwhile, record them, just melodies from the gut, because where you are right now, is a magical place, full of inspiration and enthusiasm. Use your naïveté to your advantage, confide in yourself because this is a most creative phase, that some are missing, and some never had.

I'm really nobody to give advice here 'cos I haven't done anything remarkable (yet), but I speak from the heart.

I find myself going back to compositions I did 15 years ago, and I find some super original gems there. I didn't know any better so some weird and wonderful stuff came out. Gonna utilize it.

I'm still learning to play well enough to be ready for
my first public performance.

Me too! Exciting times.

Didn't know about The Force of Gravity roots, it's one of my favorites! This song really tells a story.

Noel, you have an idea, and that's the start. So go with it. Write stuff. If it sucks, change it or throw it out. Rinse and repeat until you have what you want. Sucking isn't failure. Stopping is failure.

One thing that might help is to find existing songs that fit each of your time of day ideas. Not just one for each, but several. Then figure out WHY each of those pieces evokes that time of day. Now you have a sort of vocabulary for that time of day, and you can use that to make your own songs.

This isn't copying someone else's stuff. It's figuring out what is in their stuff so that you can use it.

Once your vocabulary is large enough, you can start making up your own words, so to speak.

raito wrote:

Noel, you have an idea, and that's the start. So go
with it. Write stuff. If it sucks, change it or throw
it out. Rinse and repeat until you have what you want.
Sucking isn't failure. Stopping is failure.

Well put!! Yes

I remember having a conversation many years ago with Russell Morris (well known Australian Singer Songwriter); he said that even at his commercial peak, for every great song he wrote he'd write fifteen pages of crap!
I think it's all too easy to fall into the trap of trying to come up with a great idea, instead of just going with the ideas that come up first. Some of my songs that I've been happiest with were written in entirety before I even touched an Instrument (usually while I'm driving or mowing the lawn for some reason...).

Whatever idea comes to mind, start with it & see where it takes you. If it's worth thinking of, it's worth tinkering with.
Smile

Last edited: Nov 30, 2011 08:28:45

Maybe people could upload some ideas to share and see what others come up with to add to their incomplete tunes/riffs. Come to think of it, im stuck, ive got what I think is a great little riff but havent been able to add to it for months. I will try and do a vid tomorrow and get it uploaded.
Cheers

Last edited: Dec 04, 2011 14:31:05

Goto Page: 1 2 Next
Top