Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 05:58 AM
RE the Dual Pro
IvanP wrote:
I personally think the biggest problem with the Dual Pro was the stock Celestion speakers, which are just not right for surf music, overdriving far too easily and emphasizing the mids too much. I changed them to Weber Californias, but I don't think those were the right speakers for that amp, either - too trebly and piercing.
Awhile back one of these hit my local shop and it was lovely in the playing. Tone-wise it was great although I could certainly never get it loud enough in the store to take advantage of its (for Fender nowadays) uncommon values in the tone stack, which later research showed did some very Showman-like stuff. I did get down on the ground, move 2 other amps so I could take a look in back and it had Weber 12A150's in it. (I wanted it bad. But it would've been like buying a Kenworth when I just need a light pickup truck.) They used a 6V6 in that reverb circuit as well, vs. 6K6. Celestions would've been the last thing I'd have wanted for what that amp could do. Great amp but, as you showed, a speaker change in order. Much to recommend if one comes across one.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
Last edited: Jan 30, 2015 05:59:47
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 10:54 AM
One more Dual Pro observation...
I had a very early one (#00061) when they first came out. Aside from the horrendous-for-surf Celestion Vintage 30's, it was a spectacular amp. The onboard reverb sounded exactly like my Fender tank. I A-B'd it and could tell no difference.
Had I not joined a surf band it that required matching blonde Tolex piggybacks shortly after buying the Dual Pro, I would have done a speaker and tube swap and kept it.
Currently in my basement sits a Dual Pro owned by my former X-Rays and HulaHounds bandmate Mike Cincola that our pal Eddie Katcher built a Showman-ish head case for. The original cabinet and a couple of the tubes had been destroyed when Fender shipped it to a local Guitar Center and Mike bought it "as is" at a GC auction for $700. These amps listed for 3 grand and had a street price of $1800, which was (still is) a lot of coin for a Fender amp. But these amps have point-to-point wiring like the old Fenders and are beautifully made inside and out. Except for those Celestion V30's...ugh.
The original reverb tank fits in the head case that Eddie custom built and the reverb is great. It's been in my basement for nearly 11 years now. I tried to buy it from Mike a couple years ago when I was still playing live but he wanted too much money for it. Someday I suppose he'll come by and retrieve it, along with his '68 Showman + matching tone ring cab. He got married, wife had the requisite baby, his priorities changed exponentially.
Come to think of it, I still have his '66 Fender XII and a really nice '90's MIJ Bass VI in my spare bedroom closet... 
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
Last edited: Jan 31, 2015 18:56:09
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 12:37 PM
 That would make a great head!
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 01:28 PM
Badger wrote:
That would make a great head!
Yep, it is an Eddie Katcher masterpiece. Just took this pic a few minutes ago.
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
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Surf_Skater
Joined: Sep 06, 2012
Posts: 1300
Lawrenceville , GA
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 01:33 PM
Woody,
I'm pretty sure the rule is. If you store it, you can play it!
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 01:49 PM
Surf_Skater wrote:
Woody,
I'm pretty sure the rule is. If you store it, you can play it!
Oh, yes - I bring it upstairs 3 or 4 times a year to make sure it gets some exercise. I may sell a Dual Showman head I have and replace it with this one since the 3-knob onboard reverb is a nice feature. It is heavy as hell, though. It must have some serious iron in the power transformer.
Hmmmm...storage bill for 11 years = 132 months at $10/month = $1320.00. Maybe I can talk Mike into giving it to me! 
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 03:13 PM
And is a golf junkie...........
Gee man etley, haven't feasted eyes on that bad boy in a LONG time. You can tighten up those loose seams with a bit of super glue, (the thickened type works best), a couple of straight pins and a bit of patience.
Very glad to hear that you bring it up for air every now and then.
Bad beasties, they.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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owen
Joined: Feb 05, 2015
Posts: 8
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Posted on Feb 05 2015 09:57 PM
is anyone using a brown 62 era Princeton? I am presently building a 62 clone with a 10" tone ring. I'm not sure why I picked this circuit to build other than its low wattage. I don't have the space for anything larger or louder. can anyone point me to recorded surf with a Princeton?
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surfing-matze
Joined: Apr 12, 2010
Posts: 99
Germany
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Posted on Feb 06 2015 04:09 AM
There are so many great amps ! Like many had already said, all depends on volume, player, guitar and personal preference (for example if you want absolut clean sound or prefer a little overdrive).
Regarding Fenders:
I tend to prefer the brown- over blackface when playin' Fender guitars. I think, that the mid-scooped blackface sound can be too much mid-scooped in combination with JM or Jags. On the other hand a Jag can sound a little boomy/bassy on the lower strings with a brownface (jangle switch on the jag works fine here !)
When playin other axes, which have more mids, one might prefer blackface over brown (?) - not 100% sure about that, since I tend to only Fenders for the last 2 years or so, but I remember feeling better with a Yamaha Sg3-blackface combination for example.
Anyone similar thoughts / experience on that ?
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evL
Joined: Oct 13, 2015
Posts: 85
Crab Key
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Posted on Oct 21 2015 08:40 PM
-
Last edited: Dec 18, 2015 02:30:02
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irv78
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 99
Austria
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Posted on Oct 22 2015 08:16 AM
owen wrote:
is anyone using a brown 62 era Princeton? I am presently building a 62 clone with a 10" tone ring. I'm not sure why I picked this circuit to build other than its low wattage. I don't have the space for anything larger or louder. can anyone point me to recorded surf with a Princeton?
Hi Owen,
I use a brownface Princeton clone myself for practice at home. The 6g2 is my main practice amp at the moment. The tonestack with the simple lo-pass tone control gives you lots of mids, great drip from your tank and a nice full sound even at low volumes. I use it with a JBL K120 and it sounds great. Are you planning to build a mini-piggyback? 10" tone-ring sounds interesting!
Good luck with the build, it's definitely a great choice for a build! And don't forget to post some pics! 
Cheers, irv
— 
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TommytheCat
Joined: Oct 24, 2015
Posts: 22
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Posted on Oct 25 2015 06:15 PM
New member here. My current amp is not typical for surf; a 36 year old 50 watt Hiwatt combo, a 1x12 open back extension cab and a RI Fender reverb unit along with some assorted pedals. I've been through a fair share of amps (70's era twins and bassmans, some Rivera-era stuff and reissue Fender samplings, fancy Top Hats and Buddas) and every one was able to do the job admirably. There is something, however, about the headroom and sonic force of a cranked Hiwatt that is akin to missing the duck dive and catching the breaker straight in the face.
I don't think that there is a "best" amp for surf (unless all they have is a JCM 800. I love 'em but that just won't work). It depends on what one's ears decide. Thinking back, aside from my current rig, my next favorite was a silverface Twin Reverb with JBL's and a 2x15 closed back extension. I almost wish I still had it.
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Pihabeach82
Joined: Sep 29, 2015
Posts: 479
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Posted on Oct 25 2015 06:42 PM
Any amp with a 6g15 attached to it
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D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
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Posted on Oct 25 2015 06:48 PM
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Oct 25 2015 07:01 PM
I'm sure a Hiwatt with the right drivers will produce huge clean tone with tons of definition and girth. I run a Twin as a head into a 39" Bassman cab with 2 JBL D130s, so I know how good that works. Isn't Hiwatt sort of related to early Fender designs? TommytheCat wrote:
New member here. My current amp is not typical for surf; a 36 year old 50 watt Hiwatt combo, a 1x12 open back extension cab and a RI Fender reverb unit along with some assorted pedals. I've been through a fair share of amps (70's era twins and bassmans, some Rivera-era stuff and reissue Fender samplings, fancy Top Hats and Buddas) and every one was able to do the job admirably. There is something, however, about the headroom and sonic force of a cranked Hiwatt that is akin to missing the duck dive and catching the breaker straight in the face.
I don't think that there is a "best" amp for surf (unless all they have is a JCM 800. I love 'em but that just won't work). It depends on what one's ears decide. Thinking back, aside from my current rig, my next favorite was a silverface Twin Reverb with JBL's and a 2x15 closed back extension. I almost wish I still had it.
— Squink Out!
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TommytheCat
Joined: Oct 24, 2015
Posts: 22
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Posted on Oct 26 2015 07:17 PM
JObeast, I'm no circuitry expert by a long shot so, this is just my opinion. Hiwatts are voiced very differently from Fenders. To these ears, Fenders are very scooped sounding; very prevalent high end, tight bass and subdued mids. Hiwatts don't have the "chime" that Fenders have. Not a bad thing; just different. Hiwatts are very punchy with a clean tone that borders on belligerent. That's the best way I can describe them.
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Oct 26 2015 09:27 PM
But aren't they based, like early Marshalls, on the Bassman, but with all different parts because the UK parts market was so different? For instance, Marshall used an aluminum chassis that effected overall performance.
Pete Townsend used Blonde Bandmasters with Marshall cabs in the mi-60s. Later he switched to Hiwatt. The surf influence on the Who is very underrated.
— Squink Out!
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BillAqua
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1054
Chicago IL.
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Posted on Mar 06 2016 12:10 AM
For me it was always a '65 Bandmaster with the Aquanauts.
I really regret selling that amp and just a few days ago picked up another. There's something really special about a Bandmaster. I know the Twin has 2x12 and more headroom but the enclosed cab is an important ingridient for the traditional surf tone.
A couple of months ago I picked up a really nice Showman so I think I'd have trouble picking between the Bandmaster and the Showman. The Jazzmaster/Showman are a nice pair and the Jaguar/Bandmaster are as well.
— "as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"
https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/
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tubeswell
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Posts: 1424
Wellington, NZ
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Posted on Mar 14 2016 02:24 AM
WoodyJ wrote:
Badger wrote:
That would make a great head!
Yep, it is an Eddie Katcher masterpiece. Just took this pic a few minutes ago.
https://surfguitar101.com/media/smiley/images/icon_drool.gif
— He who dies with the most tubes... wins
Surf Daddies
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SHADOWNIGHT5150
Joined: Jul 14, 2013
Posts: 345
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Posted on Jun 03 2016 02:45 AM
What does everyone think of the Dr Z Ezg 50
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