OzReverb
Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 460
Victoria
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 01:24 AM
Hi there,
We play a variety of venues from small intimate places to 200+ clubs, some with PA/foldback/sound person and some with none.
I'll take myself off to search the googles in a minute, but was wondering if you guys had any tips or techniques for hearing yourselves better onstage?
Has anyone tried musician's plugs or in-ear monitors? Or more foldback wedges?
We are losing the subtleties and mechanics such as harmonics and trem-bending, sometimes miss each other's cues, it even affects the drummer. We don't usually have a loud backline/amp settings and find that even if floor monitors are used (1-2 for whole stage) it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference. It's getting to the point where we are almost not wanting to play live anymore!
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psychonaut
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 06:58 AM
Just turn your amps loud enough to hear over the drums and don't rely on monitors! They only work if the sound guy knows your music and gives you a good mix. Almost never the case. Also I find alot of times it's psychological. In the worse case if I can hear the snare i'm usualy alright.
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Last edited: Sep 04, 2011 07:09:36
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Richard
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 1683
Georgia
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 07:51 AM
I can always hear drums and bass in any setting, but the way we set up is usually with me, the rhythm guitar, on the opposite side of the stage from the lead guitar. Between the distance, little or no monitors (which is my fault for not saying anything about it), and the drums and bass, I lose him half the time. When things go off the rails, it's real difficult to recover. The only solution I can see is for the entire rhythm section to take it down a notch, but I don't know how practical that is for a lot of clubs.
— The Mystery Men?
El Capitan and The Reluctant Sadists
SSS Agent #31
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killbabykill34
Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 3201
Jacksonville, AL
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 08:21 AM
The eternal question of how to set up on stage. We have still yet to get the hang of it. We did realize that turning amps down and depending on a sound guy was rarely a good idea. We now turn up and let them adjust. This works wonders in helping keep our energy up on stage as well. The biggest problem we have these days is getting the keys in the proper place in the mix.
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Rio
Joined: May 22, 2006
Posts: 500
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 08:31 AM
I also say that you should not rely on monitors (other than for vocals, if you got any) but on the amps on stage.
It helps to have the right-sized amp for the right-sized stage-- if you're playing a big stage, you'll probably want more powerful amps than if you're playing a small club, as far as stage sound itself is concered, or at least, you'll want to position them so that you can hear yourself, as well as other members of the band, without too much difficulty.
You don't want an amp that's so lound you can't hear your mates, or so quiet that they can't hear you. It's a matter of finding the right balance of wattage, and positioning.
Generally speaking, if you have a good stage sound, unless the sound guy is a total monkey, you should have a good sound coming out of the mains too.
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OzReverb
Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 460
Victoria
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 03:22 PM
The eternal question indeed - for those in the audience (again a subjective view) if in venues with a sound guy who knows surf music (which has been every venue so far), it usually sounds fine out there. It's the onstage that's the issue for us. We did try a monitor to the left of the drummer which did help him and the lead guitarist once it was turned up.
— https://www.facebook.com/lostremoleros/
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 03:32 PM
Make sure the amps are as far back as they can go. Put the drums as far up on stage as you can. Angle the outside amps in a little bit. Shouldn't have problems if you make tiny adjustments like that. We also always practiced at the same volume as we played live, we knew exactly what volumes our amps should be and how hard the drummer had to hit.
And musicians plugs suck to use, but not as bad as off the shelf earplugs. I always wore custom earplugs for practice, but I couldn't plays gigs with them.
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kenposurf
Joined: Feb 23, 2007
Posts: 1650
Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted on Sep 04 2011 03:37 PM
At least in my experience, a good sound man is a good sound man..it's besides the point if he knows anything about surf music or not....our best show this summer featured a local company. Their sound man does all the shows at a local venue (The Mystic Theater)...he has to do sound for everyone from singer songwriter acts to Dick Dale.
At our last outdoor show we could hear each other so well and the stage sound was so good we gave him a $tip$ after the show.
I ramble but if a sound person really knows their trade the type of music should not matter.
If we have no sound man (or a crummy one),,we toe the amps inward and hope for the best...just play our parts as rehearsed even if we can't hear each other or it's just a blur of sound on stage.
— www.northofmalibu.com
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3858
North Atlantic
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Posted on Sep 05 2011 09:42 AM
Set up your gear close together, not spread across the stage (no matter what size the stage). We always set the amps up to the right and left of the drummer, behind him, and angled slightly towards him. That way everyone can hear everyone.
If we are being miked & playing through a PA, the amps are angled more towards the drummer, and less towards the audience, so the soundman can control the levels.
If we have no PA, then we angle the amps more toward the audience, but still behind the drummer.
My amp is only 35 watts (Fender Vibrasonic), but I have no problem hearing it in any situation. Sometimes I'll use the tilt back legs, other times I'll put it up on a milk crate, or chair. Having it flat on the floor can make it tough to hear.
Rev
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
Last edited: Sep 05, 2011 09:42:47
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OzReverb
Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 460
Victoria
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Posted on Sep 06 2011 04:10 AM
Will give some of these a try, thanks (I'm sure others might benefit from the advice too!) 
— https://www.facebook.com/lostremoleros/
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LaFleur
Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 525
Leipzig
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Posted on Sep 06 2011 06:00 AM
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Sep 06 2011 03:32 PM
JakeDobner wrote:
Make sure the amps are as far back as they can go. Put
the drums as far up on stage as you can. Angle the
outside amps in a little bit. Shouldn't have problems
if you make tiny adjustments like that. We also always
practiced at the same volume as we played live, we knew
exactly what volumes our amps should be and how hard
the drummer had to hit.
And musicians plugs suck to use, but not as bad as off
the shelf earplugs. I always wore custom earplugs for
practice, but I couldn't plays gigs with them.
Good advice Jake! We do the same. Only thing I'll add is that I tilt my amp back so the sound is "aimed" right at my ear. Since drums and bass are non-directional that seems to work. I saw Los Straitjackets at an outdoor gig and they were set up just as you describe. I stood right at the base of the stage-behind the PA speakers, and the stage mix was perfect-and not too loud.
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zzero
Joined: Jul 09, 2010
Posts: 1153
Lillian Alabama
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 05:12 PM
go with jake's advice, it's damn near perfectalso what we did years back! ear plugs?? couldn't hear anything right with 'em, drums were too muffled, bass dissappeared and guitars turned to muddy mush. no highs, no lows and mushy muddy middlenot cool!! like eating plain cold oatmeal for breakfast!!
— Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!
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knucklesnuclear
Joined: Jul 07, 2011
Posts: 61
Dallas, GA
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Posted on Sep 16 2011 10:58 AM
Good topic! I just learned a lot!!
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