nedorama
Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Posts: 219
South Bay, CA
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Posted on Aug 01 2011 03:35 PM
New to these kind of amps; I recently bought a 65 Showman head I'm rehabilitating after someone added a pullboost, line out, disabled the tremolo and god knows what other junk. I'm now looking for a 1x15 matching cab, and have read a bit about the tone ring.
I have my Bandmaster 2x12 combo with Weber California ceramic 12's that I like; the Showman I'd want for guitar as well, but may also let our bass player use it.
Can anyone tell a newb the differences between a 1x15 tone ring cabinet and a 1x15 cab without the difference, sonically?
Appreciate all help and suggestions. thanks!
—
'65 Fender Tremolux, '74 Princeton; 77 Vibrolux Reverb; '81 Princeton Reverb
'65-66 Hilgen Basso Grande
Dr. Z MAZ 18 Jr. + 1x12 Cab
Various Telecasters and noise-making pedals
Farfisa Compact Duo
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reventlos
Joined: May 23, 2006
Posts: 209
Costa Mesa
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Posted on Aug 01 2011 04:31 PM
As with everything,it's in the ear of the beholder, but I just love my Showman tone ring cab. I have used both a 2X15 and the 1X15 cab, and the tone ring cab seems just as loud, and to me sounds bigger and more hi-fi. The 2X15 is punchier (not a bad thing) but tends to beam a little more, while the 1X15 seems a little airier, more like an open-backed cab. Keep in mind that some sort of thought went into this design, particularly with the dimensions and the JBL speaker (not positive, but I don't believe that the Showman tone ring cab's came with from Fender with any other speaker). If you're doing a home-made cab, you should probably stick with the stock dimensions (tone ring repro baffles are readily available). FWIW, I stuck a D-130 in a Bandmaster cab (no tone ring) and didn't really care for it. Good luck!
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Aug 01 2011 05:10 PM
As far as sound, I echo what Matt said.
Also, If those Webers are 8 ohms and wired parallel (4 ohm load), you'll have a 100% impedence mismatch to the Showman output transformer (8 ohms). While Fender tranformers could handle that when new, I don't think I'd take a chance with a vintage amp (unless the OT is not original).
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nedorama
Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Posts: 219
South Bay, CA
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Posted on Aug 01 2011 05:40 PM
thanks guys.
To be clear, the Weber California's are 8 ohms and wired parallel for a 4 ohm load, which is what the Bandmaster wants to see. Chassis and speakers are both mounted in a new cabinet JD Newell made for me and it sounds great. It's not original, but it definitely gets a few doubletakes at shows since Fender never made a blackface Bandmaster 2x12 combo... Those speakers will also never be used with the Showman head. I did try them with a Dr. Z Mini Z head for an experiment, and it was very nice...
On the Showman Cab, I'm planning on keeping this one separate from the Bandmaster combo, so it would be traditional head on cab. I've checked on the transformer codes and mine is indeed the 8 ohm version.
I'd seen some 1x15 cabinets from people, but some with and some without the tone ring. Good to hear that with those dimensions and a D130 (what I'd want) the tone ring makes the difference.
—
'65 Fender Tremolux, '74 Princeton; 77 Vibrolux Reverb; '81 Princeton Reverb
'65-66 Hilgen Basso Grande
Dr. Z MAZ 18 Jr. + 1x12 Cab
Various Telecasters and noise-making pedals
Farfisa Compact Duo
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
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Posted on May 25 2021 12:24 PM
Hello, I am about to have a 1x15 cab made for my Bandmaster. My biggest concern is the weight. If I remember correctly, Peter Mather told me an empty tone ring cab weighs 58 pounds.
Does anyone know what an empty traditional closed back cab weighs? Before I email him and ask, I wanted to get input from you guys about the difference in weight. Thank you for your time.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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Surfysonic
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Posts: 521
Walkersville, MD
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Posted on May 26 2021 02:38 PM
I briefly had a used '67 Showman head so I had a 1x15 Tone Ring cab custom built by Beaver Bottoms. Bob @ Beaver Bottoms was super easy to work with.
I ended up selling the Showman head and later on bought an Allen Encore head that I've paired up with the cab. I've got a '60s 15" JBL D140F in the cab. Sounds killer. The Encore has a switch in the back to use either 8 ohms or 4 ohms speaker configurations.
Recently, I decided to move the Allen Encore head into a 2x10 combo cab from Allen later this summer and I might just end up trying to move the 15" Tone Ring cab on locally as shipping would be a bear for cost and effort. These cabs are huuuuuge. 
— The doofus formerly known as Snorre
Surfysonic on YouTube
World Famous Philistines: 2014 - 2015
K39: 2013 - 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv9JADQ4ukw
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
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Posted on May 27 2021 10:30 PM
Thanks for the reply, Surfysonic. After doing some research, I think I will go with a traditional 1x15 cab. If what I am reading is correct, the tone ring cab is almost 20 pounds heavier than the standard one. If I am wrong, somebody please correct me. To be honest, I don't even think I could fit a 1x15 tone ring in my car!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
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Posted on May 28 2021 07:16 AM
I have a few tone-ring cabs and at some point I decided to move to 2 compact single 1×15. 28"x18"×11.5" (or 12"), as I found that in a band context, the compact cabs punch through the mix better in smaller venues. The big tone-ring cabs sound excellent projecting far in large venues, so sometimes I mix them (1 compact, 1 tone-ring).
Peter Mather should have the dimensions for the compact cabs, I ordered them from him a couple of years back.
One of the main reasons I had them made, was portability. Much easier to pack and transport two of the small cabs than the large tone-ring cab. At gigs I always prefer to play through two cabs per head to reduce the chance of blowing a JBL.
If I were you, I would not get a full size cab that's not tone-ring. Either tone-ring or a sealed compact.
Good luck
Ran
— The Scimitars
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
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Posted on May 28 2021 10:03 AM
Thank you for the info, kick_the_reverb. Could you kindly post a couple of photos, or PM me some photos of your gear (side by side if possible). Also, could you tell me if my 1x12 in the photo is a regular size, or a compact? Thanks again for your help.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 292
seattle, wa
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Posted on May 28 2021 10:09 AM
That looks like a compact 1x12 to me; though, having played many shows on different sized stages, a compact footprint is a blessing. We’ve had to turn our cabs on their sides countless times - granted, I’ve usually played in five piece groups. I’ve had to do it in four piece bands as well however.
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
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Posted on May 28 2021 10:16 AM
Thanks, cirecc. How much lighter is a compact than a regular 1x15 or a tone ring 1x15? You guys have me really considering a 1x15 compact now!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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FritzCat
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 667
Sonoma, CA
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Posted on May 28 2021 11:45 AM
I got a closed-back 1x15 from JD Newell, it's a nice piece that didn't break the bank. It's the extension cabinet on the linked page.
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
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Posted on May 28 2021 05:04 PM
SixStringSurfer:
Just to be clear, this was never a factory option. These compact cabs are slightly larger than half a 2x15, so together, they are sort of like playing a 2x15 cab without the weight and size penalty.
I sized them so when a Brownface Showman sits on them, the head doesn't stick out the sides.
In the video you can see and hear two of my Showman heads, each with two of these compact cabs.
This is one pair of the cabs, these were cheap from the now defunct Lamar Cabs, they are not as nice as the Mather cabs:
This is from when I helped Randy Holden at a gig, you can see the comparison in size to the tone-ring cabs:
These are the much nicer, lighter and stronger Mather cabs (sorry for the crappy lighting in this specific pic, I can assure you they have nicer tolex than the Lamar cabs):
Hope this helps.
Ran
SixStringSurfer wrote:
Thank you for the info, kick_the_reverb. Could you kindly post a couple of photos, or PM me some photos of your gear (side by side if possible). Also, could you tell me if my 1x12 in the photo is a regular size, or a compact? Thanks again for your help.
— The Scimitars
Last edited: May 28, 2021 17:09:56
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 292
seattle, wa
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Posted on May 28 2021 06:36 PM
Yeah, the compact cabs will vary based on builder, so I don’t really have a good answer for the differences in weight between the full size 1x15” and a more compact version. I would say that you’ll save a few pounds between the full non-tone ring version and the compact. You’re not removing that much material in reality, so the savings are more in space and maneuverability than in weight.
I have a Mather combo cab for my tremolux. It is well built though they didn’t do the tolex correctly for a fender. That did it like a Marshall with the seam at the bottom. It’s not a huge deal but a slight annoyance given it was a special order for a fender. That being said, everything else about it is spot on. This was many years ago.
Another option to consider that is relatively budget friendly, very customizable as far as tolex and grille cloth go, and surprisingly quick is guitar cabinets direct. My combo cab for my bandmaster came from there and is very nice. I think I had it in about three weeks after ordering it in March of this year. They have a bunch of options available that might suit your needs.
This isn’t the best picture, but it’s all I have on my phone right now:
Pardon the recording mess around them. 
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
Last edited: May 28, 2021 18:41:43
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
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Posted on May 29 2021 09:00 PM
Thank you so much, Ran and Eric. You guys have made my decision much easier now. I am getting a 1x15 compact cab. There appears to be a HUGE difference in size and weight compared to a tone ring, and even a standard 1x15 cab. As with my 1x12, I will make sure the cab is wider than my Bandmaster head (or future Showman), and it will be in rough blonde and oxblood.
I'll be honest, I don't think that 1x15 tone ring would fit in my car. Ran, your tone in that video sounds amazing. Thanks again for helping me avoid making a costly (and back breaking) mistake.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
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Posted on May 29 2021 09:57 PM
Glad to help and thanks for the compliments on the tone.
I don't think you'll be disappointed, and if you need a bigger sound just play through two of these cabs.
Ran
— The Scimitars
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1532
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on May 30 2021 01:48 PM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
Thank you so much, Ran and Eric. You guys have made my decision much easier now. I am getting a 1x15 compact cab. There appears to be a HUGE difference in size and weight compared to a tone ring, and even a standard 1x15 cab. As with my 1x12, I will make sure the cab is wider than my Bandmaster head (or future Showman), and it will be in rough blonde and oxblood. >
The 1x15 non-tone ring cabinet that my pal Eddie Katcher built for me 20 years ago. It was patterned size-wise on the early Showman 12 cabinet but I asked him to build it 3.5" deeper than the guitar versions that were 11.5" deep.
— Jack
aka WoodyJ
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
Last edited: May 31, 2021 20:35:22
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 292
seattle, wa
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Posted on May 30 2021 08:05 PM
That’s a perfect size! My 1x12 is about that wide. I like running my combo converted amps with a extra cab like that for larger/surf gigs when I needed more volume or headroom.
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Jun 01 2021 01:35 PM
Woody, that is absolutely gorgeous!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1532
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Jun 01 2021 02:53 PM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
Woody, that is absolutely gorgeous!
Thanks Jason! Being careful + Tuki padded covers have kept it in good shape. Eddie K did a perfect job with the cabinet build and I believe he built two matching ones for himself with semi-open backs and 11.5" depths for guitar work. These smaller cabinets were perfect and less trouble to move around than the Dual Showman cabs we had been using with The Surge! and the X-Rays before that.
This 15" deep bass version is the best-sounding single speaker bass cab I have ever played through and to me it sounded better than the Dual Showman cab I had with the same EV-15BX speakers. Those just didn't have enough internal cabinet volume for bass use, IMO. I used this amp on my very last live gig at the 2018 Southern Surf StompFest, great memories!
— Jack
aka WoodyJ
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
Last edited: Jun 30, 2021 17:19:09
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