morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Sep 19 2010 01:47 PM
So here's a new project, S-S-S with a 3-way and 2 push/pull pots:
image
I was wondering if this looks electronically sound before firing up the soldering iron, or if there is a better route for the signals; there wasn't a schematic anywhere to do what I wanted, so I had to roll my own, hopefully it looks okay.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Sep 19 2010 02:00 PM
with one push pull you can have the same fonction
on seymour duncan it s the shematic to have 7 positions
5 stratocaster and you can have the bridge pickup on with the push pull with the middle and the neck pickup or the 3
it is the shematic for my jazz hollow (with 1 tone and 1 volume

sorry i don't have see the 3 way
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Sep 19 2010 02:24 PM
I omitted the 5-way because I don't have a lot of use for positions 2 & 4 at all, the only combo I really use is neck/bridge, so this gives me a couple ways to get there. (Plus I've accidentally knocked the switch from 1 to 2 before, which is virtually impossible this way.) Hope that makes sense?
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Sep 19 2010 03:52 PM
ok
with only one push pull and the 3 way you can have
neck ;middle; bridge with push off
and with the push on
neck +bridge ;middle plus bridge ,bridge
but if you want the 3 pups you need the second push pull (this position after try is not really cool)
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Sep 19 2010 05:45 PM
Yep, I've heard all 3 pickups in parallel too, and don't care much for that either, even though this design can do all 7 positions if I really wanted to experiment later. I wanted something even simpler than the original 50's design, but at the same time, more flexible than modern stock ones. So from what you can tell, are the lugs connected correctly?
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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Robbie
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 9
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Posted on Sep 24 2010 12:09 PM
I don't know if you've considered this, but I find strat push/pulls difficult to get a grip of on the pull up. I ended up having to put the knob only about 3/4 of the way down on the shaft in order to get enough space underneath for my fingertips to pull (and now the knob sometimes gets in the way of the trem bar). To me the push/pull is more difficult and not as quick as a flip of a switch. If I were to do another one, I'd use a pushbutton (as on the Deluxe Player's Strat) or mini toggle instead. Just something to think about.
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Sep 24 2010 12:46 PM
Robbie
I don't know if you've considered this, but I find strat push/pulls difficult to get a grip of on the pull up. I ended up having to put the knob only about 3/4 of the way down on the shaft in order to get enough space underneath for my fingertips to pull (and now the knob sometimes gets in the way of the trem bar). To me the push/pull is more difficult and not as quick as a flip of a switch. If I were to do another one, I'd use a pushbutton (as on the Deluxe Player's Strat) or mini toggle instead. Just something to think about.
Thanks for the response Robbie- you do have to dig your fingers underneath for sure, it probably isn't easy unless one has boney digits like mine, haha. A 3PDT switch is definitely the easiest way if you don't mind some extra controls, but I was really hoping to minimize this harness... I wanted this to look sparse, but have some hidden options. A push button was really appealing too, but I've heard of some quality issues over time by many who have used them (I don't know if this meant the Fender-made or aftermarket ones, or both).
I have made some changes to the diagram above, by the way, I wouldn't use the one above yet. I'm hoping to get started this weekend; I got a bit delayed because I had to extend some of the pickup wires in order to fit a S-S-S body, so I'll update this thread if it works...
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Sep 24 2010 03:44 PM
Two ideas:
Ron Eglit replaced his Strat 3-way with three individual mini-toggles-one for each pickup. You can get any combination and it's quick to change on the fly.
Use a 3-way wired like a 2-pickup guitar: 1=bridge, 2= bridge/neck, 3= neck. Have a push-pull pot dedicated to the middle pickup. It can be brought into every other combinatio
Better yet, make the tone control below the Volume a Master Tone for all pickups and substitute a volume pot for the other tone control and wire it to the middle pickup. You can vary the amount of middle pickup you bring in to a combination.
When G & L first brought out the Commanche, it was equipped with split "Z" pickups with each pickup wired to a separate 3-way mini-toggle:
1= treble half, 2=both halves combined, 3=bass half. This produced a mind-boggling number of combinations-and most of them sucked-I know, because I spent a day going through them.
The setup G& L uses today is my favorite. Standard Strat-style 5-way with a mini toggle to get the bridge and neck together. What is not commonly known is that with the 5-way in the bridge position, the mini-toggle brings the neck pickup in at a lower level like a Tele neck/bridge. With the 5-way in the neck position, the bridge comes in balanced-more like a Jag or Jazzy.
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Sep 24 2010 06:08 PM
Wow elreydlp, great post. I had briefly thought of the 3 mini-toggles too (located right next to each respective pickup), but I guess I still wanted to preserve a stratty appearance (even though I only want two knobs). That second idea, however, I never even considered, which really has me thinking now.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Sep 25 2010 12:14 AM
Go for it Morphball!
I've never used the middle pickup alone on a Strat going back to '63. Ron wired my early, Fullerton '57 RI with a 5-way.
1= Bridge, 2=Bridge/Middle, 3=Bridge/Neck, 4=Middle/Neck, 5=Neck. It worked for me, and a lot of guys used to look at the Strat to figure out how I was getting that sound.
Funny thing-One of my favorite Strat players-a local guy, Mike Halls plays mostly on the middle pickup and his tone kills!
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Sep 25 2010 08:51 AM
The middle position can definitely sound nice; I guess with 2 on/off switches one could wire one pot to activate the middle, and the other as a middle-only override, though I don't think I could pull that off right now with my meager skills. Still a really cool idea! I might try making another harness somewhere down the line like that with cheaper pups.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Sep 25 2010 02:45 PM
morphball
The middle position can definitely sound nice;
It is my belief that the middle position alone is THE pickup position for a Strat in surf music. If I had to give up all but one of the pickups in a Strat, I'd keep the middle. I'm convinced that DD mostly used the middle pickup (and in fact in several '60s photos where you can tell where his pickup switch is set, it's usually in the middle). The same goes for Hank Marvin.
The middle pickup is the Strat's secret weapon - do not give it up!
— Ivan
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spy
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 815
Athens, Greece
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Posted on Nov 24 2010 06:05 AM
Nice comment Ivan! Which is your favourite Strat wiring?
I'd like to add the bridge+neck option and I'm thinking to experiment with my wiring.
— Every word is like an unecessary stain on silence and nothingness.
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Nov 24 2010 07:29 AM
Thanks Ivan, I totally missed this good advice; it's impossible to ignore Dick Dale's legendary tone, so I'll definitely be sticking with a standard 3-way! (With the 2 push/pulls, so that I don't have to wedge a match in the pickup selector switch, haha.)
Sorry to let this thread fizzle out, I'm still actually working on this... the above diagram is basically unusable, I'll need to update it once I get it right, which I think I finally have it. (So don't use this one!!!) One bit of advice for people like me just starting out with electronics- pots don't like to be desoldered, especially the push/pull type, and most especially the cheap ones. In hindsight, I'd say spend a few extra dollars on genuine Fender electronics, and don't start soldering until you know the connections are right (just make temporary connections with alligator clips). Lesson learned. Hopefully I'll have this project completed this month, I'll keep you posted!
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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spy
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 815
Athens, Greece
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Posted on Nov 24 2010 07:49 AM
I have searched a lot these days about modding my Strat and I believe this is the best mod!
Also, there are "no load" blender pots for this mod! Mojo and Acme have these pots. I found the same schem in Mojo's site.
— Every word is like an unecessary stain on silence and nothingness.
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Nov 24 2010 02:11 PM
spy
I have searched a lot these days about modding my Strat and I believe this is the best mod!
Also, there are "no load" blender pots for this mod! Mojo and Acme have these pots. I found the same schem in Mojo's site.
It's also on the Fralin site. A friend does this on all his Strats. I'm going to have him do it to the one I just bought.
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FlatRacer
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 182
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Posted on Nov 28 2010 11:49 PM
I used a variation of the Fralin push pull pot schematic. I used a six position rotary switch in place of the bottom tone pot to add the neck pickup to the circuit. I now have every combination available to me.
The middle pot is now a master tone, and the rotary switch is easier to use and less unsightly when activated.
Eric
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spy
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 815
Athens, Greece
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Posted on Nov 29 2010 03:20 AM
Not a bad idea!
I was thinking to use an on/off rotary switch but for the middle pickup. And instead of the classic 5-way switch, a 3-way, like a Tele.
— Every word is like an unecessary stain on silence and nothingness.
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Dec 01 2010 03:02 PM
I finally got the wiring right (went with a Rothstein pickup switching method); now there's just some grounding issues I gotta sort out, which is really obvious in this demo of me tapping the pups with a screwdriver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1RJ5ZWH760
There will be more work tonight to redo all the ground wires, but it's definitely progress, hopefully I'll be playing this next week or sooner. I can update the diagram later if anyone's interested.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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spy
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 815
Athens, Greece
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Posted on Dec 01 2010 03:09 PM
Hey, why did you treat the guitar like this?
Nice reverb sounds(!) and nice pickguard.
Where did you find it? It's pretty cool!
Are the volume and tone at the place of the two tones of a normal pickguard? Or are they a little bit centered?
— Every word is like an unecessary stain on silence and nothingness.
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