IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 07:36 AM
Can somebody that owns or owned blackface (and brownface) Bandmaster and Bassman (not tweed!) talk about how they compare to each other for surf use? Does the Bassman distort easier? Is it phat-ter in sound? Which one is louder? Which one sounds closer to a Showman? Which one sounds better at lower volumes and which one at higher volumes? Any differences in speaker cabs and/or speakers? I'm really curious to learn some of these things. Though I love my Showman, it would be nice to have something lower-powered for smaller gigs, so I'm not killing people in the club....
BTW, on our Cali tour I did play through Dave's Bassman at one gig, but it's all a blur, I can't remember how it sounded. (Though HE surely makes it sound pretty wonderful....)
Thanks in advance!
Ivan
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
|
WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1544
Bethlehem, GA
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 10:48 AM
Hi, Ivan,
I've had both. I still have the '65 Bandmster my dad bought for me brand new 'back in the day'. I also had a really good '65 Bassman that I sold to a Mariners bandmate a couple of years back.
The Bassman, being 50W to the Bandmaster's 40, had a bit more headroom and was slightly louder at the same volume settings. It was cleaner at high volumes as well, but that may have been a function of the speakers. The Bassman had new Fender guitar speakers, and the Bandmaster now has Celestion G12M Greenbacks and both amps had a new set of matched Groove Tubes. I used the Bandmaster sometimes when I was playing rhythm guitar with The Surge before I retired from playing live.
Both are great amps with killer Fender surf tone, and both work extremely well in unmic'd small-medium club settings. Eddie Katcher (Surge) has a nice blackface Bassman that is almost Showman-loud if he cranks it. He also has a Bandmaster, but I haven't heard it. Chime in, Eddie!
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
Last edited: Oct 31, 2006 23:30:31
|
dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 10:54 AM
although I only have experience with the Bassman 50, I would concur with WoodyJ's assessment above. The Bassman 50 sounds clear, bright and yes, even phat, up to about 7 on the volume control. Higher than about 7, the Bassman 50 becomes pleasantly "crunchy", breaking up just a bit. Since it sounds like you are trying to find a lower-power club amp, I can heartily endorse the Bassman 50.
ps: I run the davebassman into 2x12" weber californian's...sweet sounding stuff.
|
surfneptune
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 923
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 10:55 AM
A bandmaster would rule with a Bassman transformer, I found that the bandmaster lacks enough iron to really give a solid bass, I have owned Two blackface Bandmasters, six blackface bassman, and two whte 62 bassman. The best guitar tone came from a 65 bassman with two CTS 12s, In highschool we would play through bassman, on 10, all the time with sgs loaded with p90s or humbuckers, it was perfect for rock and roll. As far as surf tone, that is so subjective, if it's dripping in reverb or not, I think the bassman is capable of a fatter sound than the bandmaster at any volume. There are a few circuit board tweeks that can even make it better.
Every once in a while I have heard silver faced bassman that sound more like showman.
I think the showman sounds better than all of them.
I have never tried pulling two of the output tubes to lower the output, I have heard it can be done.
— THe NEpTuNeS
|
WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 969
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 11:15 AM
great thread, I have been wondering the dame thing for some time. More opinions please!
|
BillAqua
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1054
Chicago IL.
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 11:29 AM
Ivan,
I've got a '65 Bandmaster and Matt's practice amp is a '65 Bassman. I've used his Bassman many times at practice and as a backup a few times. I think the Bassman is a bit cleaner because of the transformer, and I've thought about putting a Bassman transformer into my Bandmaster but IMO it would be a waste of time. The difference is just barely noticeable when you stand there by yourself and strum chords loudly. In a live situation with other instruments it's pretty hard to tell. That said, possibly my Bandmaster has a stronger than normal transformer and Matt's Basssman may have a weaker than normal.
The only way your going to positively get a true A/B test is to make sure all the components are new in both heads. So I'm guessing mileage varies...but you know that!
Bill
— "as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"
https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/
|
Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1892
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 11:38 AM
Eddie Katcher came to Colorado last summer, and he brought a blackface Bandmaster with 2x12 cabinet, and it sounded awesome! The Aquasonics play loud, His amp was plenty loud, with lots of surf tone. I was impressed. I'd heard that Bandmasters aren't the greatest amps, but I'd get one in a minute. No experience with a Bassman, though...
Chris
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
|
Fripperton
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
Posts: 270
|
Posted on Oct 31 2006 12:59 PM
I remember back in the 60's seeing guitar players in non surf bands using Bassman amps because of the breakup and bass player's using Showman amps because of the clean headroom. I'm waiting to get my blonde Bassman back from the shop. I want to do a comparison with my tremolux which I've been using with a 69 2x12 cab lately. It's only rated at 35 watts to the Bassman's 40 so that helps a little with the smalller places and for practice. I like the Tremolux for the vintage Blonde tone but also because it has a GZ34 rectfier which adds a bit of natural compression when pushed a bit.
— There is Surf east of Sepulveda.
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Nov 01 2006 12:52 PM
Well, damn guys! All of this doesn't help me at all!  It just makes me want to buy BOTH heads!  
Kidding aside, I really appreciate everyone's response. Very interesting. From my perspective here are the positives of the two amps:
Bassman:
bigger low end
probably a bit phatter sounding than the Bandmaster
a classic guitar amp and likely to increase in value more in the future
Bandmaster:
overdrives at a lower volume (a plus for me, as I like a bit of an edge to the sound)
the lead guitar amp used on most classic Atlantics tracks (sounds great!)
a bit cheaper than the brown/blackface Bassman
vibrato circuit
Hmmmm.... That's a tough choice.... Well, don't have the money for either at the moment, so I can ponder this a while longer.
If you have any more comments, I'd love to hear them. Thanks again!
Ivan
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
|
DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11053
Berkeley, CA
|
Posted on Nov 01 2006 01:43 PM
Ivan, have you ruled out combo amps completely? I love my BF pro reverb. Saves on real estate too.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
|
PhatTele
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
Posts: 445
|
Posted on Nov 01 2006 01:53 PM
One key thing about the Bandmaster is how the vibrato circuit loads down the signal (if you happen to be using that channel). This happens to be the case in all of the AB763 amps. If you put in a switched (on/off) pot in place of the Intensity control, you can actually remove the vibrato circuit from the signal completely at the turn of a knob. It's like stepping on a boost pedal. The additional clarity and volume are surprizing when you first hear it. I try to put this mod in all my BF and SF AB763 amps. A Bassman does not have the vibrato, so you're hearing a more direct signal.
|
Anonymous
Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180
|
Posted on Nov 01 2006 05:56 PM
 bassman.
|
JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
|
Posted on Nov 01 2006 08:02 PM
IvanP
Well, damn guys! All of this doesn't help me at all! It just makes me want to buy BOTH heads!
Kidding aside, I really appreciate everyone's response. Very interesting. From my perspective here are the positives of the two amps:
Bassman:
bigger low end
probably a bit phatter sounding than the Bandmaster
a classic guitar amp and likely to increase in value more in the future
Bandmaster:
overdrives at a lower volume (a plus for me, as I like a bit of an edge to the sound)
the lead guitar amp used on most classic Atlantics tracks (sounds great!)
a bit cheaper than the brown/blackface Bassman
vibrato circuit
Hmmmm.... That's a tough choice.... Well, don't have the money for either at the moment, so I can ponder this a while longer.
If you have any more comments, I'd love to hear them. Thanks again!
Ivan
Ivan, you are a professor you must be rich so just buy both of them...
I learned the other day that a tenured University of Washington professor makes as much as an experienced Norwegian carpenter. It is one of those inane trivia facts that professors like to tell.
And Ivan, I'd ask the same question as Danny. Thought about any combo amps? You own a couple don't you? Do you just want the look of the piggy back? Trying to keep the Vox in better condition?
|
surfneptune
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 923
|
Posted on Nov 02 2006 10:38 AM
With gobs of reverb on the sound, I really am not sure whether I could tell my Showman and the Power Block apart.
I guess with a lot of reverb.... what's the point?
make a blonde shoman head out of foam and put it over the block
— THe NEpTuNeS
|
JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
|
Posted on Nov 02 2006 02:53 PM
surfneptune
With gobs of reverb on the sound, I really am not sure whether I could tell my Showman and the Power Block apart.
I guess with a lot of reverb.... what's the point?
make a blonde shoman head out of foam and put it over the block
I can't find that quote about the Showman and Power Block soundng different. I beg whoever said that to take it back. While it is beyond me to say if you should prefer the Showman or Power Block it is ridiculous to say you can't tell the difference. Maybe it is just me but I know how all my amps sound and react and I can notice the difference not problem. Every little thing should make a difference in tone.
|
surfneptune
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 923
|
Posted on Nov 02 2006 04:26 PM
I didn't mean to start a flame war! But I think it is true that reverb smears nuance in an amp. and nothing looks more killer than a blackface backline. if all things are equal (if you use a lot of verb) then either amp will deliver.
— THe NEpTuNeS
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Nov 02 2006 08:11 PM
JakeDobner
With gobs of reverb on the sound, I really am not sure whether I could tell my Showman and the Power Block apart.
I can't find that quote about the Showman and Power Block soundng different. I beg whoever said that to take it back. While it is beyond me to say if you should prefer the Showman or Power Block it is ridiculous to say you can't tell the difference. Maybe it is just me but I know how all my amps sound and react and I can notice the difference not problem. Every little thing should make a difference in tone.
Hey Jake, that was me that said that about my Showman and Power Block, and I ain't taking it back! I stand by it. I still prefer my Showman, though. There's just this mystique about having real tubes generating the sound. But I played through the Power Block for all of the Madeira's most recent practice (through the Showman cab), and it sounded amazing. I'm happy I got this amp.
Ivan
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Nov 05 2006 08:33 AM
JakeDobner
Ivan, you are a professor you must be rich so just buy both of them...
Ha! Well, I'm certainly not poor but there are many ways to spend money, and being married, I can't spend ALL the money I earn on guitar gear! In the last year I bought:
'64 Showman
'68 Showman 1x15" cab w/ JBL D130F
new Fender Jaguar Bass VI (Baritone Custom)
'85-'86 Fender Strat (Contemporary Series, MIJ)
Crate PowerBlock
Digitech Digiverb (for the CA tour - didn't actually use it for any gig)
There are limits to what even a tolerant wife will put up with!!
DannySnyder
Ivan, have you ruled out combo amps completely? I love my BF pro reverb. Saves on real estate too.
JakeDobner
And Ivan, I'd ask the same question as Danny. Thought about any combo amps? You own a couple don't you? Do you just want the look of the piggy back? Trying to keep the Vox in better condition?
Hmm, good questions. Most of my playing life I played combo amps. I do really like the look of the piggyback setup, but more importantly I've really come to realize the importance of the sound coming through a closed-back cab for the good traditional surf music tone. In addition, the blackface combo amps seem to be more expensive than the piggyback amps (though I'm not 100% surf of that).
As far as my Vox, I do love the sound of it, but in order to keep up with drums I would have to turn it up to the level where there was a bit too much overdrive going on - just a tad too much. In addition, the AC30 just doesn't have that awesome Fender bottom end, especially as generated by a closed-back cab. Since I got the Showman my AC30 has been neglected, but recently I started playing through it more, and man, what a beautiful sound! I think I might feature it a bit more prominently on the next Madeira CD....
Anyway, so, getting both a Bassman and a Bandmaster is not a short-run option. Maybe in the long-run, we'll see. But right now, it'd be nice to get one of them, though there's certainly no urgency...
Ivan
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
|
JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
|
Posted on Nov 05 2006 12:05 PM
Get both a Bassman head and Bandmaster head and run them through a mutual cabinet. That would save some dough.
And I agree about the closedback cabinet sounding better. My Showman sounds much better for surf than my 64 vibroverb even though my Vibroverb has a 15 and my Showman has two crappy, I think, 12s. I even built the Showman cab myself.
|
Jon
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1076
Columbus, OH
|
Posted on Nov 05 2006 12:31 PM
JakeDobner
Get both a Bassman head and Bandmaster head and run them through a mutual cabinet. That would save some dough.
And I agree about the closedback cabinet sounding better. My Showman sounds much better for surf than my 64 vibroverb even though my Vibroverb has a 15 and my Showman has two crappy, I think, 12s. I even built the Showman cab myself.
I'm about to start building my own cab for my recently acquired Showman.
Closer to the topic, though-- when I went to pick up my Showman, I saw that they had a '65 Bandmaster for sale. They also had a beautiful '66 Bassman. I'd have gotten both right then if I could've.
|
December Birthdays 
