SurfGuitar101.com | Forums: Speed Picking

crumble

Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
United Kingdom

Posted on Feb 19 2010 06:10 PM

This guy David Mayton is really quick, 28 notes per second:
http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Fastest-Guitar-Speed-Picking/video/123994/7691.html

But this guy can talk for longer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVrVn0gIvcM

He goes on.. (even mentioning Dick Dale).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8kBtEhM4eU

And on even more..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cymoOL0RFbc&feature=related

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crumble

Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
United Kingdom

Posted on Feb 21 2010 06:58 AM

The last two videos should be of interest to anyone who double picks, which is all the surf players here.

We all know Dick Dale brought this easten double picking style to 1960s California.

In the east it has been perfected over hundreds of years, these Sarod players can double pick endlessly with little fatigue.

Sarod is a technique of fingers and wrist movement only.

There's tutorials a plenty on youtube but surprisingly very little talk of Sarod here on SG101.

I thought i'd bring it to your attention.

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Strat-o-rama

Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 385
Boca Raton, Florida
United States

Posted on Feb 25 2010 09:00 AM

Thanks for posting this, crumble. Very interesting technique. Definitely worth exploring.

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josheboy

Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2365
Twin Cities, MN
United States

Posted on Feb 25 2010 06:27 PM

I wonder if this is how Taka Goto from the japanese post-rock band MONO picks. That guy picks like crazy for hours...

Cool videos. Real educational. Thanks for posting!

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crumble

Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
United Kingdom

Posted on Mar 03 2010 08:02 AM

In the beginning i was looking for any sort of world record the surf comunity might hold... Thinking maybe speed picking might be up our street.
Here the competition: Tiago Della Vega playing Fight of the bumble bee at staggering 320BPM. Best wind on to 03:00 minutes to miss the introduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTACJqFA1UY

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Mark2Bra

Joined: Sep 01, 2013
Posts: 248

Posted on Aug 02 2015 12:59 PM

The last two videos should be of interest to anyone who double picks, which is all the surf players here.

I like the fact that "The Trio" is being mentioned here as well as Paco De Lucia.

Agree. As a former Flamenco player , where we use "picado" - a fact index and middle finger switching , I was taught to get the power from as close to the finger tips as possible for less fatigue , as well as to minimize movement for faster attack.

I see these principles relevant for Surf as well , and Sarod picking is a good illustration of that: instead of whole arm movement just to turn the hand a bit and use the fingers.

John Mclaughlin , from the trio mentioned above developed his technique by watching Sarod players.

Lucky for us , we don't need to travel all the way to India to do that:
Here is a videoof a Sarod master.

Pay attention how they hold the pick (also known as "Jaba"): the pick is thick and stiff (usually made from wood or coconut shell) but it looks almost flexible because they hold it very relaxed and parallel to the strings.

I think than an equivalent to it would be a Dunlop Stubby triangle.
Mclaughlin is using a Jazz III.

I tried the later but I think it makes too much of a fat sound for Surf but is surely playable when held in a relaxed Sarod way.

P.s For those who are interested hereis one of my most favorite clip of the Trio.

Last edited: Aug 02, 2015 13:30:09

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Mark2Bra

Joined: Sep 01, 2013
Posts: 248

Posted on Aug 02 2015 01:35 PM

Another thing I noticed from the Sarod players:

Notice how they "tilt" the pick downwards and than strike the string rather than just pinching them. I was taught to do the same with my fingers - "always pull the string into the guitar, not downwards" for more full sound.

Don't know if this effect is desired to Surf , but just another observation.

Cheers,
Mark.

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1303
2 Download Pins

Posted on Aug 02 2015 03:03 PM

Although there are lot's of ways to do it, I've found that the best way to tremolo pick for surf style is to indeed use the whole arm. While picking from only the wrist or fingers might yeild high speed, the only way to get the power and volume Dick Dale does is to use the whole arm and it's various pivot points in conjunction - especially on heavy strings. For general fast picking I like to use an adaptation of the gypsy Rest Stroke method (very similar to flamenco rest stroke, but with a pick), combining alternate picking - usually 3 notes per string, the first note always a downstroke, and down swept arpeggios. I think one should master many different methods.

—

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

Last edited: Aug 02, 2015 15:04:12

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Mark2Bra

Joined: Sep 01, 2013
Posts: 248

Posted on Aug 03 2015 12:04 AM

the only way to get the power and volume Dick Dale does is to use the whole arm and it's various pivot points in conjunction

Under pivot points I guess you mean resting the arm on the guitar or the palm on the bridge? (depends on the strings you play)

For general fast picking I like to use an adaptation of the gypsy Rest Stroke method (very similar to flamenco rest stroke, but with a pick)

Indeed. Always did it with the fingers. I actually can't recall if I do it with a pick or not , but I certainly will pay attention to this.

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1303
2 Download Pins

Posted on Aug 03 2015 12:59 AM

Mark2Bra wrote:

Under pivot points I guess you mean resting the arm on the guitar or the palm on the bridge? (depends on the strings you play)

No, by pivot points I mean the wrist and elbow specifically. The elbow providing the downward thrust and the wrist doing the upward motion. Adjusting the level of your arm relative to each string as you play. Pivoting on the bridge will induce CTS and get you that tight speed metal sound, and you don't want that! Look at the video of Dick Dale tremolo picking and you can clearly see most of the work is coming from the elbow, with the wrist moving very little most of the time. When he does pick from the wrist you'll notice the attack is much softer and quieter. When he's using his whole arm it's louder and more intense. The motion is sort of like a drummer hitting a drum, which was one of Dick's inspirations, he's said he wanted to play guitar like Gene Krupa attacked the drums.

—

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

Top

SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Speed Picking - Mayton vs Sarod

crumble Joined: Sep 09, 2008 Posts: 3158 Guildford England	Posted on Feb 19 2010 06:10 PM This guy David Mayton is really quick, 28 notes per second: http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Fastest-Guitar-Speed-Picking/video/123994/7691.html But this guy can talk for longer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVrVn0gIvcM He goes on.. (even mentioning Dick Dale). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8kBtEhM4eU And on even more.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cymoOL0RFbc&feature=related Top
crumble Joined: Sep 09, 2008 Posts: 3158 Guildford England	Posted on Feb 21 2010 06:58 AM The last two videos should be of interest to anyone who double picks, which is all the surf players here. We all know Dick Dale brought this easten double picking style to 1960s California. In the east it has been perfected over hundreds of years, these Sarod players can double pick endlessly with little fatigue. Sarod is a technique of fingers and wrist movement only. There's tutorials a plenty on youtube but surprisingly very little talk of Sarod here on SG101. I thought i'd bring it to your attention. Top
Strat-o-rama Joined: Oct 23, 2007 Posts: 385 Boca Raton, Florida	Posted on Feb 25 2010 09:00 AM Thanks for posting this, crumble. Very interesting technique. Definitely worth exploring. Top
josheboy Joined: Mar 13, 2009 Posts: 2365 Twin Cities, MN	Posted on Feb 25 2010 06:27 PM I wonder if this is how Taka Goto from the japanese post-rock band MONO picks. That guy picks like crazy for hours... Cool videos. Real educational. Thanks for posting! Top
crumble Joined: Sep 09, 2008 Posts: 3158 Guildford England	Posted on Mar 03 2010 08:02 AM In the beginning i was looking for any sort of world record the surf comunity might hold... Thinking maybe speed picking might be up our street. Here the competition: Tiago Della Vega playing Fight of the bumble bee at staggering 320BPM. Best wind on to 03:00 minutes to miss the introduction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTACJqFA1UY Top
Mark2Bra Joined: Sep 01, 2013 Posts: 248	Posted on Aug 02 2015 12:59 PM The last two videos should be of interest to anyone who double picks, which is all the surf players here. I like the fact that "The Trio" is being mentioned here as well as Paco De Lucia. Agree. As a former Flamenco player , where we use "picado" - a fact index and middle finger switching , I was taught to get the power from as close to the finger tips as possible for less fatigue , as well as to minimize movement for faster attack. I see these principles relevant for Surf as well , and Sarod picking is a good illustration of that: instead of whole arm movement just to turn the hand a bit and use the fingers. John Mclaughlin , from the trio mentioned above developed his technique by watching Sarod players. Lucky for us , we don't need to travel all the way to India to do that: Here is a videoof a Sarod master. Pay attention how they hold the pick (also known as "Jaba"): the pick is thick and stiff (usually made from wood or coconut shell) but it looks almost flexible because they hold it very relaxed and parallel to the strings. I think than an equivalent to it would be a Dunlop Stubby triangle. Mclaughlin is using a Jazz III. I tried the later but I think it makes too much of a fat sound for Surf but is surely playable when held in a relaxed Sarod way. P.s For those who are interested hereis one of my most favorite clip of the Trio. Last edited: Aug 02, 2015 13:30:09 Top
Mark2Bra Joined: Sep 01, 2013 Posts: 248	Posted on Aug 02 2015 01:35 PM Another thing I noticed from the Sarod players: Notice how they "tilt" the pick downwards and than strike the string rather than just pinching them. I was taught to do the same with my fingers - "always pull the string into the guitar, not downwards" for more full sound. Don't know if this effect is desired to Surf , but just another observation. Cheers, Mark. Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1303	Posted on Aug 02 2015 03:03 PM Although there are lot's of ways to do it, I've found that the best way to tremolo pick for surf style is to indeed use the whole arm. While picking from only the wrist or fingers might yeild high speed, the only way to get the power and volume Dick Dale does is to use the whole arm and it's various pivot points in conjunction - especially on heavy strings. For general fast picking I like to use an adaptation of the gypsy Rest Stroke method (very similar to flamenco rest stroke, but with a pick), combining alternate picking - usually 3 notes per string, the first note always a downstroke, and down swept arpeggios. I think one should master many different methods. — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Last edited: Aug 02, 2015 15:04:12 Top
Mark2Bra Joined: Sep 01, 2013 Posts: 248	Posted on Aug 03 2015 12:04 AM the only way to get the power and volume Dick Dale does is to use the whole arm and it's various pivot points in conjunction Under pivot points I guess you mean resting the arm on the guitar or the palm on the bridge? (depends on the strings you play) For general fast picking I like to use an adaptation of the gypsy Rest Stroke method (very similar to flamenco rest stroke, but with a pick) Indeed. Always did it with the fingers. I actually can't recall if I do it with a pick or not , but I certainly will pay attention to this. Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1303	Posted on Aug 03 2015 12:59 AM Mark2Bra wrote: Under pivot points I guess you mean resting the arm on the guitar or the palm on the bridge? (depends on the strings you play) No, by pivot points I mean the wrist and elbow specifically. The elbow providing the downward thrust and the wrist doing the upward motion. Adjusting the level of your arm relative to each string as you play. Pivoting on the bridge will induce CTS and get you that tight speed metal sound, and you don't want that! Look at the video of Dick Dale tremolo picking and you can clearly see most of the work is coming from the elbow, with the wrist moving very little most of the time. When he does pick from the wrist you'll notice the attack is much softer and quieter. When he's using his whole arm it's louder and more intense. The motion is sort of like a drummer hitting a drum, which was one of Dick's inspirations, he's said he wanted to play guitar like Gene Krupa attacked the drums. — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Top