websurfer
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 1753
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Posted on May 22 2007 01:21 PM
I'm a lurker who has decided to come out of the shadows to say hi and ask a question (naturally).
I did something sort of crazy. I bought a matched set of Ludwig drums dated 1966 in (silver sparkle) with chrome supraphonic snare. It's the "super classic" set up just like Brian Bennett of the Shadows played. 22, 16, 13 bass drum and tom sizes. The crazy part is that I don't play drums! My gear acquisiton syndrome just met at the intersection of my love for the sound surf drumming and I couldn't resist.
Anyway, my question . . .
Only the snare has the original Ludwig weathermaster on the bottom (resonant?) side. the rest of the drums are fitted with "Attack 1-ply" mediums on the tops and one ply thins on the bottoms. Oh yeah, the bass drum does have an Aquarian "Super Kick I" on the beater side.
Are there heads that are considered better than others for the classic tone on the records we all know and love? I know this isn't "Surf Drums 101", but I feel like I can get my question better answered here than on one of the drum forums, since I can tell from seaching the archives that there are a lot of folks around here knowlegable about surf drums as well as guitar.
thanks!
Scott
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on May 22 2007 01:45 PM
Mike(other 'Verb guitarist) and I just bought a set of early 60s Gold Sparkle Ludwigs. The same kit played in That Thing You Do!.
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SurfBandBill
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1487
San Francisco
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Posted on May 22 2007 02:08 PM
Paging Lava Rat Taylor -- this would be a good thread to come out of lurker mode on...
~B~
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drumuitar
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 813
Boise, ID
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Posted on May 22 2007 02:39 PM
Back during the first wave, there wasn't much of a selection as far as heads go. Evans made the first plastic heads in the mid-50s I believe, and most drummers were still using calfskins into the early 60s. I would say go with coated single-ply Remo Ambassadors, or the Evans/Attack/Aquarian equivalent. They'll give a more open, ringy tone when they're tensioned fairly tight...which is the sound most of the early surf guys had (little or no muffling).
— Shawn Martin
http://www.drummerman.net
http://www.youtube.com/GKacedrummerman
http://www.facebook.com/drumuitar
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3796
tn
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Posted on May 22 2007 03:09 PM
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LRDrummer
Joined: Apr 06, 2006
Posts: 94
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Posted on May 22 2007 03:18 PM
Alright Bill. You got me out of lurker mode at long last. (It's only been a year and a half for me.)
Now, on the head subject. I've never heard of a specific head being better for surf than another. If the heads you have on there right now sound good to you and are in decent shape, keep them. If you want to replace them singlyply, coated heads-Remo ambassadors, Evans G1's etc might be worth checking out for the snare and toms. Remo has a line of "vintage" heads out there that you might seek out. The aquarian super kick head seems to always be a good choice for the kick. I am using an Evans EQ3 on my kick drum (Ayotte 22x16 maple) which I've been enjoying.
Keep in mind also that anyheads you have on the drums won't sound worth a lick if the drum's not tuned properly.
Anyway, congrads on the new kit. It sounds like a beauty.
-Taylor
— drummer-Lava Rats
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SurfBandBill
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1487
San Francisco
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Posted on May 22 2007 05:17 PM
Woo hoo! I brought a lurker out of hiding!
See, he talks drum geek like we all talk guitar geek.
~B~
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websurfer
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 1753
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Posted on May 22 2007 07:30 PM
Thanks all--that really helps point me in the right direction.
The rims and other plated parts are polishing up beautifully. While I had everything off, I just thought it would be nice to put everything back together with new/proper heads. I'll look into those brands mentioned.
edit to add:
Jake, I love "That Thing You Do". Gold sparkle---so cool! Love all the sparkle finishes. Champagne is killer too. And the pearl finishes and . . .
Too much fun!
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TFJ
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 278
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Posted on May 22 2007 08:22 PM
Remo coated Ambassadors on toms and snare - you should also replace bottom heads on all of the above (coated ambassadors on the bottom of the toms, and a clear ambassador snare weight on the bottom of the snare. Unfortunately, 40 year old heads don't resonate as well.
Evans coated G1s would be a good second choice.
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sabahawig
Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 18
Noblesville, IN
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Posted on May 23 2007 07:34 AM
I'm not an authority on vintage surf drumming sound, but I have observed something regarding surf music and drum heads.
I don't consider myself a hard hitter, but single ply heads are usually trashed after a couple hours of practice or about 45 minutes on stage with The Maderia.
The snare especially needs to be heavier than a single ply. The snare head that holds up best for me is the Aquarian Hi-Energy. I used this head on the Sandstorm album and use it live. I use Evans G2 or Remo Pinstripe on the toms depending on the kit. I think the G2s stay in tune longer, though.
The comment about tuning is the overriding thing, though. IMO, about any drum/head combination can sound great if tuned properly. Drum head selection for me is based more on durability.
Dane
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surfbeatnik
Joined: Apr 01, 2007
Posts: 347
Sea Country, CA, USA
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Posted on May 23 2007 08:49 AM
Woo Hoo! Drum talk!
My '64 Slingerlands currently have Remo fiberskyn ambassador heads on top (batter side) and Remo coated diplomats on the bottom (resonant side). This set-up (for me) is for smaller, more intimate venues and vintage-sounding recording. These fiberskns are closer in tone to real calf skin heads. I have played on real calf skins at Pete Curry's (Halibuts, Los Straitjackets, occasional Torquay) "POW-WOW Fun Room" recording studio...and they sound and feel amazing! Of course, he has them tuned to perfection! Have you heard him play drums? He's incredible!
On the bass (kick) drum I have a Remo Coated Powerstroke 3 on the batter side and smooth white on the front...No Muffling!!! For a Jazz sized (20") bass, it really kicks. If you mike the kick, either for live shows or recording...just back it away enough to reduce unwanted over-ringing. When Pete Curry records, he has no muffling in the bass drum, the front head on, and just moves the mic away from the front of the drum just enough to get the right sound. Check out his recording abilities on the Los Straitjackets Christmas Album, The Neanderthals in Space and others.
I had a similar sized '66 Ludwig kit (22,13,16) in champagne sparkle with your average (and easily found at most music, drum shops) Remo coated ambassadors on top and coated diplomats on bottom.
Check out Remo.com or evansdrumheads.com for information on all the types of heads available...it's all about personal preference with regards to sound, feel, and looks...and availability....(and price?). And as stated before, it doesn't matter what heads you use, if they're not tuned properly.
Have fun, play drums!
—
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surfbeatnik
Joined: Apr 01, 2007
Posts: 347
Sea Country, CA, USA
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Posted on May 23 2007 08:54 AM
Oops...
I forgot to mention that your choice of drumsticks and technique of hitting the heads can be just as important when determining what type of head to use, for the sound you want....just my 2 cents worth. Have fun!
—
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tonybologna
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 796
Oakland
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Posted on May 23 2007 04:26 PM
sabahawig
IMO, about any drum/head combination can sound great if tuned properly. Drum head selection for me is based more on durability.
I Agree. I look for durability when selected heads. I generally use Evan G2s on my toms and a Remo Ambassador head on the snare.
For a "classic" sound, I'd say stick to Remos. Then again, I'm not really a gearhead. But it's nice to see surf drums being discussed. 
— Science friction burns my fingers.
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CaptainSensible
Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 650
Leesburg, VA
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Posted on Aug 29 2008 09:22 AM
surfbeatnik
Woo Hoo! Drum talk!
My '64 Slingerlands currently have Remo fiberskyn ambassador heads on top (batter side) and Remo coated diplomats on the bottom (resonant side). This set-up (for me) is for smaller, more intimate venues and vintage-sounding recording. These fiberskns are closer in tone to real calf skin heads. I have played on real calf skins at Pete Curry's (Halibuts, Los Straitjackets, occasional Torquay)
Anyone else have thoughts on Remo Fiberskyn heads? I need to get some new drum heads to replace the crappy stock ones that came with my Pearl set and these mock-calfskin ones have appeal.
— Sean
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drumsdick
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 225
Central CT, USA
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Posted on Aug 29 2008 09:52 AM
And now for tuning ...
Our surf band plays in the more traditional style, so I tune my snare high and ringy - not choked tight, with the snare wires set a bit loose so they rattle more. I shoot for the sound of the snare intro in the Ventures "Walk, Don't Run". I prefer a 3 tom setup to maximize full bars of 16th fill combinations, tuned high and a fourth or fifth apart. I tune the batter and resonant heads on each drum to the same pitch in search of maximum resonance. No muffling at all, except a strip of felt inside each bass drum head, so it is not overly "boomy" (like a big concert band bass drum). But that's just my preference.
What other tunings does everyone prefer to suit your own styles?
— *Dick B.
The Aquatudes
http://www.aquatudes.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Aquatudes/107419619521
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websurfer
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 1753
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Posted on Aug 29 2008 10:18 AM
Oh man, this was the first thing I posted here. You never know when these things are going to come back to haunt you. The funny thing is, I just ordered new heads (for the snare only) a couple of days ago! I went with Aquarian Modern Vintage medium and classic clear snare side. Tuning a drum for the first time should be an adventure.
Yeah, the kickoff to Walk, Don't Run is a good reference!
Wanted to add--that my choice of head had a lot to do with my getting into brushes, and getting a good sound for that as well.
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Abe
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 1237
Bay Area
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Posted on Aug 29 2008 01:17 PM
Coated heads are good for brushes. Its kinda hard to play some cool stuff with the brushes. Are you any good at them?
— The Deadbeats
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websurfer
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 1753
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Posted on Aug 29 2008 01:32 PM
Right now, I'm only approaching playing them like regular drumsticks--except that they have practically no rebound. But that's the whole point for me. I like the physical act of having to make and lift each strike. It's strengthening my hands and I notice when I do pick up the sticks, my strokes sound a lot more even.
When I got the brushes, I also switched to traditional grip and it feels so much better. That is a real surprise to me.
Eventually I will look into the real brush playing like Clayton Cameron or Ed Thigpen who have some great books out on the subject.
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Abe
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 1237
Bay Area
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Posted on Aug 29 2008 01:38 PM
Cool. I kinda play the drums, I suck but at least im trying to learn another instrument. And its funy cuz I can kinda do a role but only with traditional grip, I suck at matched grip. Hey you should check out DrummerWorld for some brush lessons.
— The Deadbeats
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Slingerland61
Joined: Sep 04, 2006
Posts: 225
PacNW (Portland)
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Posted on Sep 01 2008 02:23 AM
CaptainSensible
Anyone else have thoughts on Remo Fiberskyn heads? I need to get some new drum heads to replace the crappy stock ones that came with my Pearl set and these mock-calfskin ones have appeal.
I've used Fiberskyns on my old Slingerland set lots of times... you'll get a warmer, almost richer sound... not quite calfskin warmth, but not bad, AND they're way easier to tune, and keep in tune. I liked 'em best when I was playing mostly rockabilly. LOVE that Bill Haley & The Comets snare crack!
If you're using brushes, I think you pretty much need coated heads. Smooth heads (and Fiberskyns) are too slickery to give you any kind of a whoosh sound as you wipe the brushes across the head. BUT if you're using stick technique with brushes, I don't think head choice makes much of a difference.
— Steve
The Apollo Four 2012-present
https://www.facebook.com/ApolloFour/
The Verbtones 2002-2012
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