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Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 17:35:36

Anyone remember c4logic?

wooza
Anyone remember c4logic?

Yes, and if we find him trying to get back on this site he's gone.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

DannySnyder
Seamoor, it seems you're implying that we mean you a certain amount of harm under the guise of being curious. I think you'd be hard pressed to find much criticism here, and certainly so with regards to newer members. There is a stage with most active members where after becoming familiar with their thoughts and opinions, this being a music site we're curious to know them musically. There are strictly fans here and there are virtuosos, there's plenty of room in between and there's no stigma for being in or near the former group ( not that I'm saying you are).

Maybe you're the David Pye of surf, I don't know. I think what we're getting at is you built up curiosity around yourself based on your very thoughtful posts, but you seem not to trust us to actually share the fruits of all this thought - ripe, nascent or rotten.

Danny, you are right. I felt that a number of people were attacking me, and I didn't really quite understand what I had said that seemed so offensive. It's not that I have a problem with other people listening to my stuff, I share it with friends all the time--it's just that my stuff is never written with the intent of public consumption--ripe nascent or rotten. Therefore, the notion, show us what ya got before we are willing to respect you--is a sentiment I am unfamiliar with. No offense, but I haven't been in that situation since I was on the playground as a kid.

I don't mean to insult anyone or cause any offense. The only place I was coming from is this: there are a lot of students of the guitar that will never have a band, have their name up in lights, release a cd, become famous. Don't let that be a disappointment to you--and don't let it blind you to the sense of fulfillment that is still available to you.

I never thought for a moment that I would have to profer my credentials before the reason inherent in that proposition would spring to life, but, there it is. I am always happy to share my music with my friends. But I am disinclined to put up a web site, schlepp off to any gigs, or try to have a career as a band. We're old guys. I'm a grandfather with a 13 year old grandson.

My apologies to all for violating the protocols
Seamoor Glas
The Iterators

Brian
No ill will was meant by my request to hear your music. As Danny said far more eloquently than I, we are just curious after reading all your lengthy and obviously well thought out posts.

We aren't challenging you like kids on a playground.

We aren't asking you to actually form a touring band or make a CD. Some of us just wanted to hear your stuff. You can email me an mp3 and I'll put in the downloads section if you like.

Sure Brian, I'd be happy to do that. I am flattered that you are interested.

If people want me to stop with the long flowery mumbo jumbo posts, no problem. I've just been bored at work and avoiding more tedious tasks. Again--if I thought I was going to bug anyone I would have kept my trap shut.

Seamoor Glas
The Iterators

zak
Hey keep on keepin' on with the long flowery posts, just don't be surprised when people are skeptical when they read stuff like that and you turn around and tell 'em it's "too much work" to post a song online.

I don't have a website, or a myspace page. I don't want one. I don't have an audience. I don't seek an audience, and I'm not preparing music in consumer friendly format. So, it sounds like work, to me--with no reward. In other words, a waste--for me, personally. But I respect that you are coming from a different place.

And when it comes to quotes like THIS one:

seamoor
You need to learn stress-management techniques to help cope with the rejection that goes hand in hand with creativity.

That's all good and well but you're not putting yourself at any real risk, or sticking your neck out, or facing any degree of real "failure" unless you submit your stuff for public scrutiny...otherwise writing about it until you're blue in the face doesn't amount to a hill of beans (except to yourself, that is).

Well, when I wrote that I was referring to all creative behavior,--and the work that I do and have done on a daily basis continues to face a very high degree of failure potential with the highest degree of public scrutiny. I may be anonymous, but that is just one aspect of my 'creative life'.

There is no greater critic than the artist themselves. Many artists have labored long and hard with no public acceptance or recognition, never ever gaining recognition--or discovering it only after death. Charles Ives, the greatest American composer, never had his works performed publicly until 50 years after his death. He was an insurance company executive while he lived.

I'm not sure your creative work must be met with public scrutiny to pass some kind of test. If I try 1000 different solutions in the lab and none of them work--no one necessarily knows I have failed but me. But I know.

But what you are complaining about is a different situation. You're talking about seeking public approval for original works, and defining success or failure by public acceptance or rejection. That may be valid if that is your goal. It simply isn't the only goal. In fact, it sounds like more of a commercial goal than an artistic one, to me.

Seamoor Glas
The Iterators

wooza
Seamoor, I just think your posts caused a whole lot of confusion, which led to all this hubbub.

I fully understand and acknowledge that there are plenty of musicians out there who don't seek fame or fortune, rather use music simply as a creative means. I have nothing against that at all--it's entirely admirable. However, I think it still predominates that the really artistic musicians out there still use that creativity as a means of outward expression. They want their music to be heard (not necessarily on a grand scale) because they feel they have something to say. Your posts have all implied to us that you definitely have something to say, so it's puzzling when you deny us your actual (musical) message. I personally find there to be conflicting messages when you say something like:

composition--the only part of music that I truly enjoy

... yet the verbosity of your posts about your own compositions implies to us the anonymous readers that you in fact get a kick out of talking about your own music (and why not be proud of your own music?), and by telling us so much about it you do in fact want us to know about it. But when you give us all a sense that you love to make music, love to talk about the music you make, tell us all about it, pique our interest, and then deny us the opportunity to hear... because you don't want us to... that gets really confusing.

I'd just like to clarify that I don't mean to attack you or your methods. My previous posts were admittedly harsh and cheekily backhanded, but they were just products of my frustration in not understanding your methods.

And just out of curiosity... you once said you're a minimalist. Do you mean like basic structure riffs and turnarounds "surf minimalism" or John Adams/Philip Glass "process music"-type minimalism... or something else?

Thank you for your frankness, your candor, and your gesture of camaraderie. Last question first. By minimalism, I am thinking of the original French movement embodied in Satie, Debussy, and Ravel, and although Adams/Glass are descendents of that movement, I don't see them as sources of inspiration. I like some of their work, but not all. And yes, my work is based on simple lead/rhythm guitar structures--sort of like Django and his little brother around the campfire...

All I was really trying to do with my lengthy posts was to stimulate other young guitarists to try to write their own music, not simply imitate the canon of the genre--and if they would simply concentrate on educating themselves and cultivating their creativity, then the broads and the booze and the fame and the fortune would come. But become an artist first. That is all I was saying. For me, there is an excitement with creativity that is unequalled--it's something I first discovered when I was 7 and stole a bunch of bricks from a construction site in San Jose and built a clubhouse out of them. I trace my fascination with music and logic both to an earlyl interest in architecture.

I'm lucky that I have a day job that is creatively challenging and keeps me on my toes--but composing music is my great love--and it doesn't matter to me if anyone ever hears it besides my son, who plays bass, and my rhythm guitarist, and a few other friends who play. I don't do it for others. That is my whole point. There are plenty of people who paint--that don't do it for others. They do it for the love of painting. Again, people who like to play out--whatever--more power to them.

Seamoor Glas
The Iterators

I love Debussy. You should check out Danny Snyder's beautiful version of Clair de lune in the downloads section. I think it is filed under his work with the Tomorrow Men.

DannySnyder
Seamoor, if you don't want to post something, why don't you share with us what surf bands you like?

Well, I sent some files to Brian, and told him to go ahead and post them if he thought they weren't too feeble--it was just stuff from the past several days or so that never got filed away--I didn't realize there was a download section--I only logged on to post--never saw all the extra features available to registered users.

Some surf bands I really like are:

The Lively Ones
The Atlantics
Anything by Ritchie Polodar
The Insect Surfers
The Halibuts
The Fathoms
Slacktone
The Volcanos
The Huntington Cads
Friends of Dean Martinez
Laika and the Cosmonauts
The Treble Spankers
The Hellbenders
James Wilsey
Three Balls of Fire
The Surf Coasters

I feel bad about not including all the other bands I like--the bands I listed either did something that that REALLY knocked me out or else I like their whole body of work and have never tired of it.

Then there are recordings like Oscura and Magic Box that are more Cinematic/Ambient Rock that have 'surfiness' elements at times--I like those projects alot. They are very atmospheric.

Seamoor Glas
The Iterators

Thanks Seamoor, it's obvious we share the same tastes in surf bands. Those are all fantastic groups.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF