This came to me while I was listening to Sandstorm in the car. I was really getting into it, which had me fishing around for the case to look at the credits (one eye on the road.) The part I was digging (this time) were the middle songs, and turns out both are two of the three credited to by Patrick O'Connor alone. No wonder they seem to flow so well.

Just wondering if you recording artists could let me in on how you decide what sequence or order the tracks will be in. Is it a democratic process? How do you finally decide "this should be first", or "let's leave this for the finale", and who has final say?
How crucial is the song sequence to you? Inquiring minds want to know . .

Track order is absolutely important. How one decides what track goes where depends on the songs you have.

There is no right answer, although you can disagree no problem. There are, however, questions to consider.

Depending on the mood of the album it is very important to know where you are placing your major or minor key songs. Do I have several songs with similar instrumentation in a row? Are the tempos spread out in a non-repetitive manner? Is the album going to drag at any point due to length of songs? There are many more things to consider but most importantly is "Am I happy with how this album feels?"

To me, an album is art, a collective work. The surf genre receives no reprise from this. To me there seems to be a lack of this in lots of surf albums. Ivan is somebody who is wholly aware of this. Tsar Wars is the best example in this genre. Pollo has great running orders as do the Bambi Molesters, Nebulas, Slacktone, et al. I won't list bands, but there are some albums I just don't like because of the running order even if the songs might be good songs. You don't need to pummel on the first song, you don't need to put mid-tempo songs towards teh end, et cetera? Why not? Because you don't have to have those types of songs for a great album.

There is no cookie cutter album. And perhaps an album is best if it has a new approach.

As to some of Rick's questions about how the band decided where tracks go. In the 'Verb, we are very much so a democratic process, especially on the first album. We cultivated the sound together and very much so we were on the same page together when deciding the listing. We each wrote our desired order on paper and we all wrote down a similar listing. Two of us fought for a different opening track than we used but we lost. Oh well, album is still great with a great running order.

Next album... we are going to have more songs to choose from and we are entering the studio knowing we are going to have to cut many tracks. We will record them all, and afterwards cut them. We are going to record too many tracks and then cut them down. The album is going to be a lot of work, it is going to sound different than most surf, but the tone will be surf as will the beats.

On a longplayer you have the option of regarding the surrounding tunes as the frame to the current one. Your aim is to put each track in its tailor made spotlight. There are many ways to reach this. I always note the key and the bpm with the track and regard that along with the individual feel of the song.

The legacy of putting your hit single in first place comes from enabling listeners to easily skip it on vinyl when they already heard it a zillion times, as well as introducing yourself with a sure winner. For me the general direction is up (in tempo and key). So I need to find a good spot for the slowest track, which is usually after several fast ones. If you have many tracks with a similar groove you can break the tempo more often, maybe using related or same keys to connect. Another legacy that I use is the side-1/side-2 thing - two proper sets with all kinds of parameters. All of this creates neat, smaller bows instead of one large, dramatic run, or a puzzle of unrelated parts.

As far as keys are concerned, try to avoid steps in 4ths or 5ths (too many notes will be the same as in the number before), but rather have down- or up-steps between a second and a big third, from tune to tune. In other words avoid to gel your tracklist too much until it sounds like its all in one key and tempo – because it would make the music sound uninspired. Alternate major and minor, and regard small pitch changes as part of the bigger composition: subtile but dramatic.

I found you can get great results by just going by numbers in the case of tracklists. Getting the balance of contrast and consistency is the actual creative bit of the tracklisting process.

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For the last few cds that I did I organized the tunes into a playlist and tweaked the order til I was happy. I like to break up the songs by key, rhythm and tempo so that I don't have two songs in em back to back or 2 slower tunes or 2 shuffle rhythms in a row etc. I think that is also important to spread your best, or at least your favorite, songs throughout the record. Also don't end the record with your worst, least favorite or slowest tune. Incidentally, as a dj, I find that the best tunes on most cds are track 1 and track 3. I don't know why that is.

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I tend to follow/agree with a lot of what's been said already. I tend to focus on the opening and closing tracks. Both need to be strong songs for reasons described earlier. I find that a strong/catchy opening track is good to grab and keep the listener's attention so they actually want to listen to the rest of the album. For the closing track, I like to use an equally strong song, but maybe more complex, longer, more anthemic, if that makes any sense. Maybe a tune with a "wow" factor in it.

Other than that, I like to then break up tunes based on their tempo and key. In other words I wouldn't necessarily want two tunes in Ab right next to each other unless they just go together well (which happens). I also like to stick tunes that are really stylistically different from the rest of the album right in the middle of the set. Seems to be a good fit.

As far as who decides on track order, we just bounce ideas for a list off each other and make changes collectively until everybody is happy. Its never really an issue.

...And I'd agree with the song order for Reverberated ...For you Pleasure. Really good Jake!

Ryan
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FWIW--
First song should rock, second song should be your catchiest melody, third song your hit single. After that just try to get a flow going with the energy- peaks and valleys.

If you are trying to establish your sound as being outside the norm or if you are trying to show how your new album is different from the last one, then start out with your weirdest song (as long as it rocks, see above).

Last song should either be rocker that ends with a bang, or else a slow song song that trails off into the distance.

One technique I really love is when the first song fades in. Inevitably the listener will want to turn up the volume on the stereo, then it gets nice and loud, just like it should be! First impressions are very important.

I also like a weird little snippet of sound like a reverb crash, or a spoken intro as the first song. In general I like well placed samples, especially if they have to do with the title or theme of the song, it makes it easier to remember. but not on every track!the titles.

And, though it hardly ever happens in surf, I am a big fan of well thought out transitions from one song to another- see flow.

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Sorry, didn't mean to throw you. I forgot we have some drummers here.