DaneBrammage_
I picked up a Vox Tonelab a few months back and I'm pretty happy with it. The built-in spring reverb simulation is bad, but I just run my re-issue tank in front of it and it sounds pretty good.

Well, people keep saying this, and frankly it's a bit unfair. NONE of the modelers have ever shot for the Fender Tube Reverb Unit sound. They all seem to shoot for the stomp box reverb sound and pretty much all end up sounding like the first Van Halen record and call it a day. Drip wouldn't be hard to nail. They've just never tried.

JakeDobner
...Reverb modified with effects sounds yucky, but effects with reverb on them can sound great...

I'd agrree with the statement above 99% of the time...
except for Tremolo...

remember the old-time amps had built in tremolo (either pre or post the tone stage)...
so an old-time signal path would look something like this:

guitar>reverb unit>amp input stage> tone stage>tremolo > speaker

or

guitar> reverb unit> amp input stage> tremolo> tone stage> speaker

eitherway, the guitar hits the reverberator first...THEN the tremolator

JakeDobner
Dane, I think BadAsh can answer this question better than I can. I think you should be running your tank behind your effects processor. So... Guitar->Effects->Reverb->Amp. Of course I could have what you are saying backwards. I would just make sure your reverb is the first hooked up to the amp before your effects are. You want everything reverbed, not your reverb getting modified by each effect. Reverb modified with effects sounds yucky, but effects with reverb on them can sound great.

Well, I don't know why you'd nominate me as the expert Jake, but since the late 70's when I picked up my first pedals, it's pretty much been gospel that you'd want filters (wahs and modulators, etc.) and other tone modifying stuff before distortion/overdrive, and THEN your time/doppler related stuff like Vibrato, tremolo, and yeah I would put reverb last, but a trem after reverb would be a different sound, and would be a matter of taste. I don't know why digital modeling would alter that approach if you are going to use a reverb tank or real tremolo in your chain. Of course that's if you want to hear each pedal working in harmony. But if you like sounding like a star wars pod racer, breaking the rules can give you... Unique sounds Put your rat before a wah, and go for it if that's what you want! Run your wah backwards and make seagull sounds, Jimi did...

I have to say that I'm very old school and set in my ways so I'm the last person you should listen to. I've used amps with effects loops, but I've never used the loops. I just plug in the front end...

badash
Well, people keep saying this, and frankly it's a bit unfair. NONE of the modelers have ever shot for the Fender Tube Reverb Unit sound. They all seem to shoot for the stomp box reverb sound and pretty much all end up sounding like the first Van Halen record and call it a day. Drip wouldn't be hard to nail. They've just never tried.

I've played with a few modellers and to me they all sound strange and metallic when they try to emulate spring reverb. There's this weird glitch at the front end of every note.

I wouldn't mind sounding like the first Van Halen record from time to time...

JakeDobner
Dane, I think BadAsh can answer this question better than I can. I think you should be running your tank behind your effects processor. So... Guitar->Effects->Reverb->Amp. Of course I could have what you are saying backwards. I would just make sure your reverb is the first hooked up to the amp before your effects are. You want everything reverbed, not your reverb getting modified by each effect. Reverb modified with effects sounds yucky, but effects with reverb on them can sound great.

My usual path is Guitar > Reverb > Modeller > Headphones or Computer. When I use the Tonelab's effects I just turn the Reverb's Mix down to 0, but normally I just use the modeller as an amp replacement so the reverb goes in front, just like with a real amp, and it works ok.

If anybody's interested, check out my track on the 2007 SG101 MP3 compilation. The lead part is Guitar > Tonelab set for an Vox AC15 model and multi-head echo. The rhythm part is Guitar > Reverb > Tonelab set for a blackface Twin into an old Marshall 4x12 cab.

JrCoaster
Most of the modelers I've tried... NI Guitar Rig, Line6 PodXT, Amplitude, and now Line6 Guitarport....all seem a bit sterile, but they're okay for putting ideas down and keeping it all in the box (except Pod).

Yeah, it's kinda like someone doing an impersonation of Christopher Walken. You think, "wow he's really nailing that!" and then you actually hear Walken and realize, no... He isn't nailing it. That pick is for you Jake. Not quite a peep, but close .

When I use headphones with modeling stuff it pretty much sounds like the movie "Tron" looked But Just like anything they are just tools. If you are playing somewhere that just sounds dead, or borrowing an amp like a Crate Powerblock, Roland JC or a Polytone and it's sounding more sterile than you're used to, what would you do? Even though it's not surf approved a slight touch of very subtle delay blended in, and/or some "real" reverb can make things sound more natural.

As far as the artificiality of digital reverb (in any emulator) goes, don't you suppose that back in the day the spring reverb was criticised as being nothing like the real reverb of a large room? Or of a plate reverb, for that matter? Evolution happens, people can adapt.

Since I never play in public and only needed a headphone amp, I went with a Line 6 Pocket Pod. I have no amp to speak of.

LHR
Pocket Pod Update: I chucked it! Back to Guitar Center it went. Ultimately, it just had that "cheap junk toy" feel about it. And that extended to the available tones, I am afraid.

Did you hook it up via USB to a computer and tweak any of the user presets?

I just use the presets as "suggested serving" illustrations. I make a copy of them, tweak them, then save the modified versions under different names, usually with variations specially for use with the bridge-only pup.

For a long time I was reluctant to use the bridge pickup at all because it sounded like an icepick in my ear. Then I realised that I just needed to fiddle with the tone controls, and save the settings so that they weren't lost forever when I switched to another preset. It made a world of difference, having saved those as user presets.

I do agree that the plastic case on the Pocket Pod has a brittle and fragile feel about it, so I take care to never allow it to fall on the floor (by passing the cables to it through a spring clamp at the edge of the desk), never use the belt clip, and I wrap it in a bubblepack envelope when I put it in the gig bag.

I'm not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.

I use one of the Lin6 GuitarPort things, and it's pretty nice. I can usually get it to sound like what I'm after. I agree with the reverb sounding a little stmp-boxy, which isn't always bad. If'n I want spring reverb, I hook into my ARP 2600's tank. It's got a really weird (and wonderful) sound.