IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 11:41 AM
I don't know how many of you bought the February '08 issue of Vintage Guitar magazine that has the interview with Dave Wronski, but if you did, check out also the interview with the famous producer John Porter (the cover story) in the same issue. He's produced many huge names, and has a large collection of vintage guitars to boot. He had Fender's Custom Shop make him matching Strat, Tele and Jazzmaster guitars some time ago, all featuring the Mary Kay styling with anodized pickguards and all-rosewood necks. Here's what he says about that Jazzmaster:
"The Jazzmaster has Japanese Jazzmaster pickups. Those sound amazing."
Very interesting. We see again that one man's junk is another man's treasure.
Ivan
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Last edited: Jan 27, 2008 11:51:36
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 11:44 AM
There is another current guitar magazine with an article on the Jazzmaster and the guy who wrote the article basically blasts the Jazzmaster calling it a novelty and saying they aren't good sounding guitars.
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dubtrub
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 245
Bakersfield CA.
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 12:26 PM
IvanP
Here's what he says about that Jazzmaster:
"The Jazzmaster has Japanese Jazzmaster pickups. Those sound amazing."
They do sound amazing, until you plug into an amp. 
Danny
— Danny Ellison aka dubtrub
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 12:37 PM
When we first put the X-Rays together in '97 I was using a '95 CIJ Jazzmaster with stock pickups. That was the guitar that Richard has now and plays regularly with The Surge! I thought it's stock pickups were ok but sounded a little to Straty for that classic both pickup position thunk the Jazzmaster is so famous for.
Careful examination of those pickups (which I have just measured), reveals the coil formers are like normal jazzmaster parts but the magnets measure .456 in length vs the AVRI's at .477. The CIJ coil is deeper .233 vs the AVRI's at .162. The CIJ has fewer turns of wire with a coil resistance of 6.28K ohms while the AVRI lead pickup meaures 7.99K ohms.
While the Stock CIJ guitar sounded pretty musical and sort of like a Jazzmaster. It didn't really have "that sound" until I put the AVRI's in it.
My guess is that Fender Japan was trying to quiet the RFI potential by modifying the pickup design to help out the fact that the CIJ guitars do not have the brass cavity insert shield.......ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1907
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 03:05 PM
IvanP
I don't know how many of you bought the February '08 issue of Vintage Guitar magazine that has the interview with Dave Wronski, but if you did, check out also the interview with the famous producer John Porter (the cover story) in the same issue. He's produced many huge names, and has a large collection of vintage guitars to boot. He had Fender's Custom Shop make him matching Strat, Tele and Jazzmaster guitars some time ago, all featuring the Mary Kay styling with anodized pickguards and all-rosewood necks. Here's what he says about that Jazzmaster:
"The Jazzmaster has Japanese Jazzmaster pickups. Those sound amazing."
Very interesting. We see again that one man's junk is another man's treasure.
Ivan
I saw that article too. I think he implied that the necks were custom made for him, rosewood, no truss rods. I think he said it was a guy that used to work at the Fender custom shop, but not the actual custom shop. He talked about the Strat, and the Tele being built for him, but i got the impression that the jazzmaster wasn't, just the neck. maybe because of the Japanese pickup part.
I think the Jazzmaster is a Special Edition 90's Japanese Jazzmaster - blonde finish, gold hardware - just like yours Ivan!
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
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estreet
Joined: Mar 17, 2007
Posts: 839
United Kingdom
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 04:31 PM
IvanP
Very interesting. We see again that one man's junk is another man's treasure.
Ivan
Well, as Shakespeare said 'There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so'
There is really only 'different' beacause everyone isn't looking for the same thing - and that's got to be as true of pick-ups as anything. I have an old Aria semi-acoustic that I love the sound of because the weakish humbuckers have a nice bright open sound. When I bought a Les Paul I was seriously thinking of putting the pickups from the Aria in it because the Les Paul sounded dull and 'blocky' through my Fender Twin with JBLs. In the end I changed the amp because I was playing rock at that time but I did eventually change the front pickup in the Gibson for an SD Jazz humbucker which sounded quite like the Aria's pickups.
It's all an interaction between the player, amp and pickups. Just because a pick up is more expensive or technically better than another doesn't mean everyone will prefer it. I remember Robert Smith used to use an 'Audition' (cheapst of the cheap) pickup in between his Jazzmaster pickups.
Also, microphonic pickups can sound great (although they are no use for live work) because they pick up some of the acoustic qualities of the guitar.
— http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns
Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.
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Spud
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Posts: 666
Oz
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 04:48 PM
My Jazzmaster is a CIJ job and without having played an AVRI one I just love the damn thing, the sounds I get out of it are evolving all the time, it seems I find something new about the tone every time I play it, I reckon it's the best thing since sliced bread.
However... after reading these posts and Eddie's reasons for the differences in pickups it makes sense, also I'm impressed as to the level you blokes go to to investigate the sounds from your guitars, very impressed and slightly in awe.
Now I feel a case of PAS (pickup acquisition syndrome) coming on, I just hope it's not as bad as the GAS one I'm still suffering from.
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badash
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 1732
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 05:34 PM
Surf bias and traditionalism aside, the very worst thing one can honestly say about CIJ Jazzmaster pickups is that they sound like strat pickups. This is only bad if you want your jazzmaster to sound like, well, a jazzmaster! I would be willing to bet the gent in the article has a large strat collection and may even favor strats as his go to weapon. In that case a jazzmaster that sounds like strat would indeed be a blessing...
However if you want a jazzmaster to sound like a jazzmaster, your opinion would differ. I love strats. But I love my jazzmaster more. To my ear nothing sounds more like me, the sound in my head, than my AVRI played through my AC30. Clapton has a sound in his head. He gets it with strats and tweed twins. Kerry King of Slaughter has a sound in his head according to the magazine I browsed through at Borders while my 8 year old spent her christmas gift card there. Humbuckers and moded marshalls. And what's with white guys with all these tribal tatooes? Tatooed shaved heads... Really?
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dubtrub
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 245
Bakersfield CA.
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 06:05 PM
I guess I'd better explain a little more regarding my above post so that no one gets offended.
I've owned and played Strat's forever, however, I always loved the looks and sound of a Jazzmaster in the middle position. In 1992 I finally decided to buy a 'new' Jazzmaster. There were no AVRI's at that time and I had to order mine through the Fender Custom Shop, who in turned ordered from Fender Japan. It took a little over six months to arrive. When it did come in and I went to pick it up, I was never so disappointed in all my life. It had a beautiful sunburst finish but had the ugliest looking bright red tortoise shell pickguard. Then when I got it home and plugged it into my '63 reissue Vibroverb I thought I was going to cry. I was expecting that beautiful Jazzmaster sound, but it wasn't there.
Dissappointed, I dump the guitar in the back of the closet unplayed for the next 12 years. In '04 I read on the Fender Discussion forum about Seymour Duncan Vintage pickups and decided to give them a try before unloading that guitar on ebay. I got the pup's, replaced the guard with a brown tortoise one and have been in JM heaven ever since. I guess if one has never heard a 'real' Jazzmaster, they can be happy with the stock MIJ pup's. But believe me they come alive with AVRI or SM pickups. I now have two. One with the SM pup's which I favor most, and one with the AVRI.
Danny
— Danny Ellison aka dubtrub
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SURFmole
Joined: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 901
Portland, OR
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 07:24 PM
dubtrub
I now have two. One with the SM pup's which I favor most, and one with the AVRI.
By "SM" you mean the SD Vintage, right? What's the difference in tone? Are the Duncan's warmer sounding than the AVRI?
— www.apollo4.com
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dubtrub
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 245
Bakersfield CA.
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 07:47 PM
SURFmole
By "SM" you mean the SD Vintage, right? What's the difference in tone? Are the Duncan's warmer sounding than the AVRI?
My BAD. Yes SD Vintage. I'm not sure SD is still producing these anymore. All I ever see is quarter pounder's and Antiquties which (I believe) are not the same.
Between the AVRI and SD Vintage, there is very little difference in the tone at all until you set the volume on 10 and play 'clean' with no effects on the amp. Then the SD's have a little sharper bite that cuts through like a knife. I used the exact same electronic components in both (all USA) and wired to original vintage specs including cloth wiring and brass tub, cavity and pickguard shielding.
I've played ReverbMike's all original '66 JM and his still has more brilliance and bite than the SD's but it's close. The AVRI pup's are no 'slouch' though.
Danny
— Danny Ellison aka dubtrub
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SURFmole
Joined: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 901
Portland, OR
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Posted on Jan 27 2008 08:09 PM
dubtrub
SURFmole
The AVRI pup's are no 'slouch' though.
Cool...that's what I was hoping to hear! I just found a deal on a pair of AVRIs that I was planning on using for my JM build 
— www.apollo4.com
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pyrobob
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 251
Auburn, CA
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 12:01 AM
Hmmm, this is very interesting reading for me. I have two Japanese made Jazzmasters, and have been pretty satisfied with them.
It is absolutely true that the CIJ pickups sound nothing like AVRI pickups & AVRI p'ups don't quite sound like the originals.
But I enjoy the tone of my two guitars because it works well with the fact that I play alongside a guy that plays only AVRI JM's. That way the two tones are similar, but not exactly the same. I also play mostly rhythm parts, so that works out well too, and I'm a cheap SOB so really it all works out in the end.
"Same, but different."
-Mr. Miagi
Bob
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estreet
Joined: Mar 17, 2007
Posts: 839
United Kingdom
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 06:41 AM
SURFmole
dubtrub
I now have two. One with the SM pup's which I favor most, and one with the AVRI.
By "SM" you mean the SD Vintage, right? What's the difference in tone? Are the Duncan's warmer sounding than the AVRI?
I don't own a Jazzmaster (yet :)) but I changed the bridge pickup in my CIJ Jag for an SD Vintage pickup. It certainly wasn't a dramatic difference ... in fact I thought it sounded exactly the same at first when playing at home. It was only after a rehearsal and also a comparison with my friend's CIJ Jag that I realised it was slightly stronger and thicker. It is a subtle difference though and it's still not as loud as the CIJ front pickup - although it is a slightly better match for it volume wise than the original. (Of course, front pickups are always louder if they have the same winding as the bridge one because the string oscillation is wider there. The SD Vintage is wound 'slightly' hotter according to their blurb. I would say it was about 10% or maybe less)
— http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns
Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 07:08 AM
Drop your neck pickup to balance the outputs....I have my AVRI Jag set up with the neck pickup approximatly 3/8" below the strings and the lead pick up is about 3/16" below. Pretty good balance using 11/50 Chromes.......ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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tenderfoot
Joined: Feb 01, 2007
Posts: 308
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 07:17 AM
I just bought AVRI PUPs for my JM. I am hoping for a sound improvement. Please back me up on this guys. I am going to be hearing an improvement right????
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Rio
Joined: May 22, 2006
Posts: 500
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 07:27 AM
I agree that the Japanese Jazzmaster pickups sound more like strats than JM's... not necessarily a bad sound, unless you want it to sound like a JM, of course. So, AVRI or SD pickups would be an improvement. I haven't changed them in mine, only because I've got an AVRI (and because I don't use them all that much, really)
But the MIJ/CIJ JM pickups are still better sounding than the MIJ/CIJ Jaguar pickups, which are really thin & lifeless, and which in my view, absolutely need to be changed out just to be usable, let alone to get them to sound like a Jag
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 08:21 AM
You WILL hear a difference. And you'll dig the reverse wound/reverse polarity configuration as well with both pickups engaged.......
While you have it disassembled, try my mod of bridging the vol pot (1 meg) with a 1 meg resistor and bridge the two vol pot tabs above ground with a 1000 pico farad ceramic cap......Ooooooh.....good stuff!
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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tenderfoot
Joined: Feb 01, 2007
Posts: 308
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 10:50 AM
Thanks, I'm pumped to install the new pups. I think the majority of sg101 agree that AVRI sound better and more authentic. Now, I am the complete opposite of a tech, so I am nervous enough just taking it apart and putting in the pups. Making a mod on my own terrifies me. Not to mention your mod instructions sounded Greek to me. I would have to see a diagram or somthing. Anyway, thanks for the help. I will post on the change of sound that I noticed.
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Klas
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 2310
Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted on Jan 28 2008 11:04 AM
Rio
But the MIJ/CIJ JM pickups are still better sounding than the MIJ/CIJ Jaguar pickups, which are really thin & lifeless, and which in my view, absolutely need to be changed out just to be usable, let alone to get them to sound like a Jag
Doesn't sound particularly thin and lifeless to me...
http://www.myspace.com/thesurfites
All leads and most if not all rhythms played on stock (though European retailed) CIJ Jaguars. I'll even go so far and say we have one of the more exciting guitar sounds of today.
— T H E ✠ S U R F I T E S
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