This is particularly intended for those who do their own recording, mixing & mastering, but I suppose it has relevance for anyone who does any recording as a band:

How do you decide on the final mix, or the final master?

Is it a group decision, democratically or by consensus, or do you appoint one of your group as producer with final decision-making?

What do you do about "me louder", "no me!" etc?

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JakeDobner
The group can sit in but the mixer and one or two people should make the decisions. It is much faster and potentially more even.

Personally, we are thinking of having a producer next time. The first time we did the album our Engineer got really involved telling us to redo takes, but never as far as overdubbing new parts.

You need a producer of the same genre not just somebody that produced so and so's alternative, metal band, that producer will have the ear and passion for that style and genre.

-Kyle

Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp

JakeDobner
Obviously.

The Engineer captures the magic on tape, The Producer would be a Phil Spector.

-Kyle

Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp

Last edited: Jan 04, 2008 21:46:23

But if it feels good go with it I don't know of any surf band that has hired a producer in the now maybe a close friend of the genre at no charge to dedicate his or her time to produce or co-produce??? sometimes it will be one guy in the group to call the shot or as a group, for example you would find in the liner notes "Produced by The 'Verb" I think you guys did an excellent job with your last works, keep the same magic do what ever it was that worked for you guys last time.

-Kyle

Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp

Rio
This is particularly intended for those who do their own recording, mixing & mastering, but I suppose it has relevance for anyone who does any recording as a band:

How do you decide on the final mix, or the final master?

Is it a group decision, democratically or by consensus, or do you appoint one of your group as producer with final decision-making?

What do you do about "me louder", "no me!" etc?

This is an interesting question, I guess the answer sort of depends upon the dynamics of the people involved.

If there is a level of trust between your band and your engineer/producer, then I would leave the majority of recording and mixing and mastering technical decisions to them. That's why you have an engineer/producer in the first place: they are hired for their expertise. If there isn't a level of trust with the person engineering/producing, then I would say it's time to find an engineer/producer you trust.

Which sort of begs the point: how to find an engineer you trust? Well, part of the equation is listening to their previous output. Another is to arrange a meeting and actually discuss your recording plans before you enter the studio...before you spend even one-measely-cent, Any engineer that won't sacrifice a half hour or so to get to know prospective clients is not worth hiring.

Regarding individual band member's place in the mix: well that will also depend upon your band dynamics. Again discussions BEFORE entering a studio environment can lead to better results once you hit the studio (and start forking out good $$$ in order to debate the apparent loudness levels of toms and high hats and bass player's g-strings and things like that.

Hopefully, your band can arrive at some level of trust and consensus before you ever enter the studio. I have found that often: if you can't express what you want with words, chances are you won't be magically 'discovering' it when you enter the studio. Even studio experimentation should be somewhat discussed beforehand: you know, "...and then we'll experiment during this part...everyone agree?" In other words: know thyself, and to thine own band be true.

If your band relationship, or the relationship between your band and the 'producer' is dysfunctional...well, i would save the money until you can figure out how to talk effectively with each other.

Ruhar
Since we're a three piece with only one guitarist, it was probably much easier for us. I basically sat with the engineer and we mixed the entire album. My bandmates just trusted my judgement and we had no issues. I was trying to stay away from the "too many cooks" problem.

Exact situation for us being a 4 piece band the guys look to me and trust me with engineering, mixing, producing, song writing and composing, ofcourse my bandmates have a say in what they dig and don't, I highly value their opinion and feedback, they trust me from hearing my past previous works and the finished product in whole.

-Kyle

Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp

Rio
What do you do about "me louder", "no me!" etc?

give them the boot

The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann

You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.

kenposurf
When doing the final mix, it is just the engineer and myself..I will have notes from the rest of the band to draw from..having a whole band at mixdown will drive your engineer nuts...

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Exactly what I always do. I think democracy is nice but in this situation only one member has to have the final word. If the final result is faulty then you can always fix it the next session.

We were really lucky to have an engineer who could completely understand what sounds we were trying to achieve. As we also rehearse at the same place then he knows us really well.

As for a producer I can't really rely on anyone. So I'm my own producer! I know what I want better than anyone.
I guess if a band is not completely sure of what they want then a producer could be a helping hand. I produced other bands so I know I always want to put my own ideas into the music. Then it's always a case of knowing how much input you really want, if only in the technical aspects or in the music itself.

www.surfadelica.com
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The Engineer captures the magic on tape, The Producer would be a Phil Spector

A gun-toting psychopath? It might still work.

I always thought the producer should be a person brought in to create a cohesive project, whether that's a "single" or "album" or whatever.
By all means if your going to hire a producer get someone who knows what you're trying to achieve. If you're going for twangy surf rock you probably wouldn't hire Dr. Dre (but what do I know, the results might be amazing).
IMO the song itself is the final authority.

If, and that's a big if, the band knows what they want implicitly and can think as a unit then a group mix session - with the engineer subtly presiding - can be positive. If not - and be honest - let the engineer mix it, that's one of the reasons you hired them.
It's good to have another set of ears that are not emotionally connected to the songs.
This helps overcome the "more me" situation. Sometimes someone has to take charge - with utmost diplomacy of course. If you want to hear all you all the time, make a solo record.
There are lots of examples of people hiring big-name producers and not getting what they expected, for intance;
Andy Partridge of XTC initially hated working with Todd Rudgren, especially after Rundgren told them "Here's the songs we're going to record and here are the arrangements". Later Partridge admitted that Skylarking was "A sterling bit of work". The baby-sitter position should be the band managers job, but not many bands I work with have managers so there.

Tom Dowd always gave the musicians ultimate credit as the reason those records sounded so good.

Interesting replies

I've recorded several bands, most of them with me in it, over the past couple of years. I own the gear, and we record/rehearse in my basement studio.

Most of the time, my bandmates trust my judgment, and are usually very complimentary and appreciative of my efforts.

As it turns out, the issue I posted about really only happened with one band, and in particular, with one individual in the one band, and ultimately, the problem was deeper than just the recording issue. Anyway, that band is done, largely because of the inter-personal issues, and I've moved on to further and better things, where recording is fun again, and not a hassle.

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