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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink A pressing question upon my mind - What is a delay box for?

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So I tried to do a forum search to answer this but found nothing. But what is a delay box used for. I found one that claimed to be vintage voiced used for surf and rockabilly that gave it like a slap sound and what not. So is this a form of reverb or what?

It is basically something designed to cause repeats. You can set it short for the 50s rockabilly "slap back" sound, or set in long delay to give an echo... echo... echo.....

It's not technically reverb, as it repeats notes, whereas reverb adds the "drip"

~B~

so is it the same thing as echo boxes that I hear about?

Yep. Although you probably are hearing about tape echoes which are different. But anything that doesn't work with tape is a both a delay/echo.

The only reason I ask is I was wondering if I could use a vintage voiced echo instead of a reverb pedal because the reverb on my amp is digital and is quite poopy sounding, in that I got better reverb on my 15 watt frontman.

Hmmm... Sometimes I play my analog delay in place of reverb when my Super's Reverb is busted or when I play my Showman.

It won't take the place of reverb but it will color up your sound well enough.

I don't think vintage voiced echo is a good term for what you are thinking. Vintage echo is tape echo which you would be in better shape to buy 3 reverb tanks instead. Analog delay is probably what you are looking for. I really love analog delay pedals, well good ones anyways. Boss, Maxon, and DOD have good vintage or reissue ones. Digital delays are a different breed altogether. I don't like them as much.

Anyways, you can always buy a reverb pedal or tank. Sure, tanks aren't cheap, but neither are good pedals.

Reverb is what you hear in a large hall or swimming baths etc. So many different echoes that you cant hear them individually; only a wall of sound. Delay/echo is what you hear bounce off a single distant wall - a clear repeat of the original sound. The reason that tape echo is different, is that you can have multiple repeats at different times. Therefore, the sound falls somewhere between the single repeat(s) of a straight delay and the thousands of repeats that make up reverb.

http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns

Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.

Barf
The only reason I ask is I was wondering if I could use a vintage voiced echo instead of a reverb pedal because the reverb on my amp is digital and is quite poopy sounding, in that I got better reverb on my 15 watt frontman.

Barf:
I would think that echo/delay would be used with reverberation in order to enhance spatial depth perception, rather than instead of reverberation. Echo (or delay) and reverberation aren't exactly the same sound...echo (or delay) is a repeat of the original sound source in a very controlled and restricted sense, reverberation on the other hand has a large amount of randomness or chaos built into its design. Although there are many fancy parameters that can be controlled on a reverberation unit, the ultimate output of the effect is much more complex than the output of a simple repeat, echo or delay.

Analog reverberation units utilize dwell and mix circuits as well as a mechanical spring transducer in order to produce a randomized reverberation sound effect. Digital reverberation units have a variety of variable parameters as well as a set of fancy algorithm equations which attempt to digitally mimic natural reverberation sound effects.

Back to your question: can one use a delay/echo effect instead of reverberation? Sure! You can do whatever you want...and it probably will sound pretty cool...but, and echo or delay does not produce the same sound effect as a decent reverberation unit.

I say give it a try and see what happens...I mean...as long as you don't have to spend a ton of money getting a bunch of gear you're not sure of...experimentation and exploration are the best ways to answer this type of question for yourself.

good luck and happy New Year,
-dp

I'd be really excited if there were more (classy) pedal boards used by surf guitarists. They aren't for everybody but they are pretty damn fun.

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 16:17:44

The only reason I asked was I saw a rocktron pedal that claimed it duplicated tape echo and the sound files sounded a lot like gene vincent's guitarist and it said I could use for surf and was confused because I thought it was strictly a reverb driven style.

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 16:17:52

On the topic of echo, does anyone have opinions on how the Boss Space Echo stacks up against the Korg 'Tone Works' Echo for a bit of a Shadows/Atlantics type echo?

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

Here is my favorite song that features delay. It is Blue Star performed by Takeshi Terauchi. I love this song.

http://jukebox.peterlink.ru/cgi-bin/play.m3u?instrumental/ventures/nokie/1998_1:7

Listen to most any Shadows song and you'll get a good feel for what echo is/does.

Right on thanks for your help guys.

Hi Barf,

The only TRUE surf sound requires the spring reverb tank. There are two manufacturers that you can get a spring reverb from. One of course is a Fender reverb tank....If you can afford to buy a vintage Fender reverb (early 60s) that's the answer. I endorse a company called Gomez Amplification. Dario Gomez has a great sounding spring reverb tank. I use it every time I play now. It is probably more affordable than a vintage Fender reverb tank. BUT there is no pedal I have ever heard that will give you the true surf sound, and I have tried many of them.
I use an Ehcoplex tape delay only for more body and a very slight amount of actual repeats or delays. It seems best to go in to the echo unit then the reverb tank then to your amp. I normally use two Showman amps with four 15" JBL D130s. I also use a 50 watt Gomez amp called the Sonido. It is perfect for smaller venues and gets the exact same sound as my Showman Amps, just not as loud. Gomez will be giving me a 100 watt Amp called the Surfer as soon as he can. I played out of his only demo unit and it sounded as good as the early 60s Fender Showman Amps I used. He has cloned the Showman amp by using the same parts and specs that Leo Fender created. If you want to know more about Gomez gear go to gomezamps.com or dario@gomezamps.com that is his e mail address.
I have two Fender quad reverbs amps. Just like a Fender twin only with four speakers. The reverb in those amps just doesn’t cut it.
As I said Fender or Gomez spring reverb tanks are the ONLY way to go.

Hope this helps, if you want to ask any questions you can contact me at eddiebertrand@yahoo.com or visit my web site eddiebertrand.com...there is a tab on the web site you can click on that tells more about my equipment, if you are at all interested.

Good Luck Barf,
Eddie

EddieBertrand_
As I said Fender or Gomez spring reverb tanks are the ONLY way to go.

as much as I hate to go against Eddie, there are plenty of more options, I have a weber tank (homebuilt) and a Cosmoverb - both exact 6G15 circuits - the original Fender circuit - although some if not most parts are of course from different suppliers. then there are other companies that offer kits like weber, and other companies that offer tube reverb unit (most are exact 6G15 copies) a bit of googling will dig them up. Id like to stress though that Im not saying that to take business away from Dario, Ive not dealt with him or his stuff personally, but veryone who did here on sg101 raves about both (Eddie Bertrand e.g.!), which is an endorsement of trustworthy people afaic. If I could afford a boutique or vintage reverb, Id go fo the Gomez over other boutique builders or vintage, alas, I cant afford it. just thought I should mention the other options.

as far as delay, you could check out youtube clips to get the idea, shadows have been mentioned, also look up some vintage atlantics, and euro instrumentals, most notably the spotniks and the tielman brothers. for the combination of delay with reverb, check out the Madiera, and some of PDM's stuff.

I seem to remember that Eddie used delay on the new composition and lengthy jam track of which Tim posted a video a while back, not entirly sure, Ill have to dig that one up again. great stuff!

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

WR
as far as delay, you could check out youtube clips to get the idea, shadows have been mentioned, also look up some vintage atlantics, and euro instrumentals, most notably the spotniks and the tielman brothers. for the combination of delay with reverb, check out the Madiera, and some of PDM's stuff.

I should mention that the Atlantics used both an echo unit AND a reverb unit on most of their stuff - they combined them. There were occasional American sixties surf bands that used echo, too - the Tornadoes come to mind - check out Beyond the Surf. Beautiful echo there. Also, the Nobles - check out Earthquake, where an echo unit is used to emulate earthquake noises (the Surfaris covered this song, also using an echo unit). I think the Nobles also used both an echo and a reverb unit, though the Tornadoes may have been echo only.

Ivan

Ivan
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WR, I for some reason was under the impression the Cosmoverb was not a 6G15 recreation. I seem to remember it having fuzz or something similar. I am probably totally wrong or am thinking it is a different unit. It looked kind of like a Orange head right? There is also a chance I never heard this unit.

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