I noticed something recently while playing through my Showman without reverb ( ): when I have the amp above 5-6, and am playing the high strings, the sharp attack really makes the cone move back and forth dramatically. It also doesn't sound very clean - the initial attack sounds somehow distorted (that's not quite it, but I don't know how to describe it). The speaker does not exhibit this problem on lower strings - it seems to be able to take the bass string attack just fine, without much if any cone movement.

Would you say there's something wrong with the speaker, or is this natural? Is the sound I'm hearing just simple speaker break-up?

Finally, can those D130Fs actually take the full power of the Showman by themselves (as in a 1x15" cab)? I've always wondered about that. Are they actually rated at 85W? Or maybe even higher, as the amp probably puts out more than 85W when cranked and double-picked with heavy-gauged strings?

Thanks in advance.
Ivan

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I've never played a Showman that sounded 100% clean at 5 or above. I think it's more likely to be tube- than speaker-related. More cone movement at higher frequencies sounds pretty normal to me.

Matter is just energy waiting to happen.

That's normal for a D-120 or D-130. These speakers were just beefed up HiFi speakers. The D-140 has a tighter spider with heavier paper cone material, excess cone excursion is less of a problem.... I'm not sure about the numbers on the knobs as being an accurate indication of the amps relative power output. I have a Bandmaster that is much louder than my Showman (both 1965 models) at the 3/4 range but the Showman really picks up steam at about 5. And of course the Normal channel is louder that the Vibrato channels on both amps......ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Thanks for the answers and discussion. I was playing through the Normal channel, and it's actually pretty loud at 5. When I dig into the strings, it's cranking - it stings the ears (especially without a reverb unit in-line, since the unit lowers the input level a bit). Quite honestly (in answer to Jake), this could have been happening since I got the amp, since it's not very noticable when the reverb is on - probably cause reverb masks it. Anyway, I just started getting worried that the speaker is maybe blown, but it sounds like it may be pretty normal for a JBL to have so much cone movement. BTW, when the cone is flying back and forth, each pick attack on high strings is accompanied by a subtle 'pop' sound apparently caused by the sudden shaking of the cone. It's not really loud. I suspect this may simply be normal speaker break-up - yes?

Finally, I'm pretty sure this is caused by the speaker, and not anything in the amp. I can definitely see the cone movement generating those distortions/pops.

Thanks,
Ivan

Ivan
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IvanP
Finally, can those D130Fs actually take the full power of the Showman by themselves (as in a 1x15" cab)? I've always wondered about that. Are they actually rated at 85W? Or maybe even higher, as the amp probably puts out more than 85W when cranked and double-picked with heavy-gauged strings?

Im not 100% about my memory here, but didnt the F-series come about cause Dick Dale kept blowing D130's, and didnt the duals come about cause Dick Dale kept still blowing them up? that suggests to me that if you crank a showman biased for max power, you CAN blow up the speaker. which makes sense becasue "matching" the speaker power handling to the amp's output exactly goes against any advice about choosing speaker, Ive always heard to take between 1.5 and 2 times the amp's output.

then again, in modern days I have never heard of people blowing speakers. But I estimate we dont play as loud as Dick Dale back then or now. phew.

fwiw, I have a D140F run by a bassman, and it breaks up at around 6. Im 100% sure it's speaker break up, I can run other cabs with more power with the bassman with everything on 10 and get no breakup whatsoever.

I also remember reading somewhere that the power handling ratings of the JBL's came about by experimentation, ie turning up the volume until the speaker blew up, and that theoretically, the JBL's have much lower ratings.

again, Im not 100% I got it right and I read it on the web.

If you ever did busemness with Ted Weber you might want to ask him, he should know this stuff and he's very helpful to his customers in my experience. (maybe to his not-customers to, but I dont know cause Im not not a customer of him. )

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IvanP
Finally, I'm pretty sure this is caused by the speaker, and not anything in the amp. I can definitely see the cone movement generating those distortions/pops.

I dont think that says much, if it is something in the amp you would also see it in the cone movement. the amp doesnt created the popping soundwaves, the speaker does... could still be the amp. to me it sounds more like a speaker problem though, but that's nothing more than completly unfounded instinct. trying with another speaker is a good idea, Id stay awy from the 30watt vox though, dont you have bulldogs in there? dont know if they'd cut it - do you still have the amp with the weber cali? or the former #1, wasnt that a 2x12?

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Yeah maybe it needs to be re-coned.

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I will try the Showman with the Webers in the Dual Pro when I get home and see if it does the same thing. I suspect not, though.

I don't think it's a recone, I think it's original. It also doesn't sound like the speaker is blown, or about to blow - but I'm not 100% sure. Obviously I'm hoping that I don't need a replacement, and haven't even started giving that any thought. The 'popping', distorting effect is quite subtle, and I think it might in fact be just simple speaker break up. but I just don't know.

So, these are really the answers I need:

1) Does your JBL D130F break up when playing through a single Showman? At what volume setting? (I know this can vary a lot due to several factors, I'm just curious.)

2) When your JBL D130F breaks up, does the cone visibly move back and forth?

3) Is there more cone movement at any given volume setting when you play higher or lower strings?

I guess those are my main questions for those folks that have Showman amps with this speaker. It might be asking a lot, though....

Thanks.
Ivan

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It could very well be that the voice coil is shot. Either burned out (literally) or from mechanical abrasion during extreme speaker excursion.

Those old JBLs were pushed right to their limits in the old Showman configuration.

Have you thought about replacing it with the Eminence Commonwealth. (Or is that heresy?) Of course, this one is the D130F wannabe that Fender uses nowadays. But it is rated to handle much more power.

Commonwealth 15:

JBL D130F:

SSIV

Last edited: Sep 21, 2007 22:00:26

LHR
It could very well be that the voice coil is shot. Either burned out (literally) or from mechanical abrasion during extreme speaker excursion.

LHR, could it be that my JBL D130F is behaving exactly the way it should? This is the question I'm asking. People are giving me the extreme case scenarios - blown speaker - when I keep pointing out that it's pretty subtle, and not even noticable with reverb on. I just want to know if this is how JBL D130Fs sound and act when they're breaking up - yes or no? Doesn't anybody actually have the experience with that speaker that could answer my question? Anybody on this forum with a single Showman with a 1x15" cab with a D130F?

Ivan

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