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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Is it just me or is no one ever talking about your basic clean tone...?

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Hi all!

Im (relatively) new to Surfguitar.
However, as a guitarplayer in general, I have 30plus years on the meter.
So, I really like to do all things guitar for real when I do 'em, you know?
200% or not at all.
And there is one thing that "bugs me".

There is very few info available about the clean tone for Surfguitar.
When you dive in the subject (on Google, YouTube, forums, whatever) it's always "reverb reverb reverb reverb reverb reverb reverb reverb reverb reverb".

Ok, I get it Big Grin

But simply throwing in a Surfybear pedal, does not give you instant Surftone.
(Or does it actually...?)

Isn't there anything to say about the basics, the core, your starting point? Bass, mids, highs, ....?
I mean: is just ANY clean amp ok, for example?
is it just about the not-clipping?
Compressor pedals before the reverb?
Etc etc.
There must be A LOT more to it than just reverb.
Or am I over-thinking this (wouldn't be my fist time Smile )

I'd love to read some thoughts about the tone BEFORE the reverb is switched on.

(Guitar/pickup wise: 2 Strats here, one with Fender Fat 50's and the other with EMG Mavericks. Thinking about picking up a J Mascis Jazzmaster too)

Grindpad - Oldschool Dutch Bay Area Thrashmetal

Last edited: Aug 26, 2024 01:28:33

With Blossom Point pedal any clean tone becomes surfy) I use cheap 1 watt head and surf well.

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Yeah, is that pedal really worth it?
I was eyeballin' that one already, a while ago

Grindpad - Oldschool Dutch Bay Area Thrashmetal

Last edited: Aug 26, 2024 06:22:59

I think it's important to understand the reason why the sound of a clear channel sounds like that in surf music. The musicians wanted to play loudly, but due to technical limitations, the clear sound became dirtier when the volume was increased. From here we have a not quite clear sound, there is a barely noticeable overdrive, the dynamics become smaller. I'm not completely sure, but I think all the pedals that promise the "same sound" of early amplifiers are just light overdrives.

Slikbeer wrote:

Yeah, is that pedal really worth it?
I was eyeballin' that one already, a while ago

It worth every penny

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

The Blossom Point uses a limiter, and is definitely not and overdrive. It basically changes the dynamics to sound more like a first generation Showman being pushed to just before breakup.

As a general rule, I don’t use overdrive, such as a Tube Screamer, etc. because I like the clean sound. If I was playing Cheap Trick covers, or Texas Blues, I might distortion or overdrive and I’ve experimented with transparent overdrives, although I tend to use them as a clean preamp and not so much for clipping.

Even clean amps, with no pedals in front will break up if you push them hard enough, and a 6G15 worked as a clean preamp, which pushed the front end a bit, but most of the early Surf recordings were clean, at least to my ear.

When Dick Dale played the Rendevous, he was filling a big space, filled with people, and needed a lot of volume. The Dual Showman was developed for that situation, and it was designed to stay clean. When I first came to Surf Guitar 101, I assumed that this was essentially the same sound as a Twin Reverb, but it was explained to me that the Showman from that era had more midranges than the later amps, and I was pointed to this YouTube example, which is definitely not Surf.

IMHO, some modern Surf bands take the reverb a bit far. Original Surf bands may not have had reverb available. The unit came out in ‘61, the dawn of Surf, and made the sound a lot more portable, whereas it had been a studio effect only, just a few years before. I believe that Dick Dale’s earliest work didn’t have reverb, and not every band adopted reverb right away. IIRC, it was the BelAirs which actually broke up because some members didn’t want reverb, and others did.

So, while I understand the pursuit of the vaunted Astronaut’s Drip, as heard on Baja, I personally do not think that there’s any absolute necessity to have drip on every Surf tune, and I can get great reverb sounds out of the reverb built into my Deluxe Reverb or my Winfield Elizabeth. No, it’s not the sound of a 6G15, but it’s still a good sound. I’ve found that drip is influenced by a lot of things, such as RH technique and the pick itself. Obviously, Palm muting makes a big difference.

The last thing that comes to mind is that high volume, in and of itself has an effect on how we hear sound. We can’t get the same sound in our living room as we could get in a large venue with the amp cranked up. It’s just not possible.

In the greater world of Rock, fortunes have been made by devising ways to make small venue or living room volumes take on the characteristics of a high volume situation. How many Tube Screamer based devices have been sold over the years? My own opinion is that a lot of what people like about cranked up and overdriven sounds is that compressed dynamics that are natural to high volumes.

For me, this is where the Blossom Point comes into its own. This is only my opinion, but the Blossom Point, placed just before the amp, acts as a Limiter and offers the ability to adjust Presence to taste. Ther is definitely a trimpot marked “Limiter” on the board and there is a Presence control on top. There is the ability to attenuate input signal and an Output control that allows up to 6dB of gain, but 6dB is not usually enough to push an amp into overdrive. I use the Output control to simply match volume, so that the pedal itself doesn’t change the volume, when it is engaged. Mine is pretty much never off, anyhow. I recommend this pedal for pretty much any use.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I'd say on this forum, there is a whole lot of discussion about clean tone. But there are not many threads/topics that are specifically labelled "clean tone". The discussion comes up in terms of amplifiers, pickups, strings, and other things.

I think that more than anything, amplifiers are the focus because the classic tone players are chasing comes from the early 60s era of Fender amps (often referred to as brownface or blonde amps), which have a certain tonal range that sets them apart from later black panel Fenders (which tend to have more of the mid-range scooped out) and the earlier tweed Fenders (which tend to overdrive more). The obsession you see with the Showman amps of the era comes from the fact that they have one of those circuits giving it the desired tonal characteristics and the ability to be turned up very loud without significantly distorting.

That being said, many amps would work, but less ideal amps are ones with a very pronounced mid-range or ones that distort at low volume. And while I do really like what is considered the classic clean surf tone, I like some variety too (like mild to heavy overdrive and using different amps), so I'd say experiment and find what you like.

edwardsand wrote:

I'd say on this forum, there is a whole lot of discussion about clean tone. But there are not many threads/topics that are specifically labelled "clean tone". The discussion comes up in terms of amplifiers, pickups, strings, and other things.

Only half jokingly; talking about clean sounds seems to be less intriguing. I remember the interviews in Guitar Player, back in the ‘70s frequently seemed to revolve around how each particular artist was getting the distortion heard on their famed recordings.

Getting a good clean sound is pretty simple, buy a clean amp and plug your guitar into it. Not much to talk about. Smile

edwardsand wrote:

I think that more than anything, amplifiers are the focus because the classic tone players are chasing comes from the early 60s era of Fender amps (often referred to as brownface or blonde amps), which have a certain tonal range that sets them apart from later black panel Fenders (which tend to have more of the mid-range scooped out) and the earlier tweed Fenders (which tend to overdrive more). The obsession you see with the Showman amps of the era comes from the fact that they have one of those circuits giving it the desired tonal characteristics and the ability to be turned up very loud without significantly distorting.

The early ‘60s Fenders had a lot going for them. They were a step away from the Tweed amps, but as you point out, they didn’t have the scooped midrange that would show up in the 1964 models. There was a grit, and I’m not using grit as a euphemism for distortion, but just a strength to the note attack which I think was unique to the big Fender amps of that era. That Freddie King clip is a good example of this, and this sound works well for the clean bright sounds of Surf, because this adds body to the sound without becoming muddy.

edwardsand wrote:

That being said, many amps would work, but less ideal amps are ones with a very pronounced mid-range or ones that distort at low volume. And while I do really like what is considered the classic clean surf tone, I like some variety too (like mild to heavy overdrive and using different amps), so I'd say experiment and find what you like.

It wouldn’t make any sense to me to buy a vintage Showman, but I get some pretty good Surf sounds from amps with a Vox AC-15 front end. They are bright, but don’t have the thin midrange of an amp like a Deluxe Reverb.

Interestingly, I have a Fender ‘68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, which uses a different midrange cap in what they call the “Bassman tone stack”, referring to the mid ‘60s blonde Bassman. It’s interesting that this is the same tone stack as the Super Reverb. This makes for a decent Surf sound, and I should point out that my ‘68 CDR has been modified to restore the headroom, by lowering the value of the NFB resistor.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Last edited: Aug 26, 2024 18:13:11

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