FS: 1961 Fender Showman

duncanjames

Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 156

Posted on May 01 2024 08:57 PM

Amp is sold, thanks everyone for the discussion!

Last edited: May 14, 2024 22:58:33

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duncanjames

Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 156

Posted on May 01 2024 09:11 PM

Here's a video demonstrating the slowed tremolo. More a "note to self" video than something I expected to try to make a sale with, but that'll do for now!

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SixStringSurfer

Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1401
Memphis, TN
United States

Posted on May 01 2024 10:32 PM

Could someone please explain to me if the replaced OT changes the way the amp sounds? How is it different from the original, tone wise? Thank you.

—

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.

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duncanjames

Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 156

Posted on May 01 2024 10:51 PM

SixStringSurfer wrote:

Could someone please explain to me if the replaced OT changes the way the amp sounds? How is it different from the original, tone wise? Thank you.

I couldn't really speak on how it compares to the original, as this is how I got it. Somebody else might have a more direct A/B experience, though!

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SixStringSurfer

Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1401
Memphis, TN
United States

Posted on May 02 2024 09:48 AM

Hi duncanjames, you have a gorgeous amp there. I really appreciate your honesty about the OT being replaced. I am not an expert, so somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

If I purchased this amp, I would need to replace it with the Dick Dale OT to get the tone I want. This would be my second Showman (first one is a boutique 6G14 head that nailed the tone I am going for).

I would have to take it to a local amp tech for installation, and he would have it for a minimum of three months. For the record, I never use the vibrato side, I only use the normal channel. I hope someone can confirm if I am correct, or if I am missing something.

This is exactly why I am not buying Showman on Reverb. Nobody knows what has been done under the hood, because the owner hasn't posted any photos or sound clips. Thanks again for being upfront and honest about the OT.

—

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.

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DeathTide

Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1378
New Orleans
United States

Posted on May 02 2024 12:15 PM

I don't know if Tonemaster made good transformers. If so, I'd guess the difference is marginal unless the specs are different. It does say 100w when I think the original was 85w (or 80w?). I'd guess the there might be a teensy more headroom. In my opinion, replacing the already-replaced OT would only be reasonable if it sounded (or felt) wrong. Price is good and lookit those beautiful blue molded caps! That's a big confidence-booster.

I hope someone with more knowledge can chime in a correct anything I got wrong!

—

Daniel Deathtide

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kick_the_reverb

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1337
Escondido, CA
2 News Pins

Posted on May 02 2024 01:08 PM

This is a "for-sale" post. I don't know if the seller duncanjames is expecting a discussion here or not. Also, I started avoiding giving public advice here about this era of Showman amps because of too many "experts" chiming in with questionable information.

duncanjames - if you're ok with feedback about the amp here (including non-positive) please say so.

All the best and good luck with the sale.
Ran

—

The Scimitars

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duncanjames

Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 156

Posted on May 02 2024 03:18 PM

Happy to talk about it! I learned a lot about brown amps from discussions here back in the day, which is a large part of why I wanted to list it here before Reverb.

To be clear, Tonemaster was the model name of one of the Fender custom shop amps back in the day. The Vibro King is the more well known amp from that line.

Here's a stock photo stolen from Reverb. Looks like they've been selling for $1800-2300, so the transformers are probably decent.

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kick_the_reverb

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1337
Escondido, CA
2 News Pins

Posted on May 02 2024 11:34 PM

Ok, thanks for being open to discussion.
I haven't found any specific info about the output transformer the Tonemaster used. But, a replacement OT, especially not one that even tries to replicate the original, is a big deal. Another drop in value is the fact it's recovered. Yet another issue is the drilled chassis. Further circuit mods and replacement parts also drop value.
Now, it may sound great to you, but you need to compare it to a well-maintained Showman with original iron and all original blue molded caps to see how they compare.
A point of reference: recently, a recovered (in black) amp with original iron and only 2 replacement caps sold for around $1200-$1300.
So, I have a feeling your asking price might be on the high side.
It's entirely possible that someone will pay this, but if not, you may find buyers at a lower price.
As to anyone who had an amp built (and the builder decided to change this, that or the other), if you didn't do a head-to-head comparison to the real thing, you can't be certain on how close it is.

Good luck to all, hope a reasonable deal is struck, all sides are happy, and the amp gets enjoyed by playing Surf music through it.

Ran

—

The Scimitars

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duncanjames

Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 156

Posted on May 03 2024 02:40 AM

kick_the_reverb thanks for your input! If nothing else, it's good to see what market values sit at these days. The more clear those numbers are, the less likely anybody's getting ripped off on either end.

My asking price was based on the most recent sales I could find in similar condition. Particularly, one that sold about 20 days ago for $2799+$150 shipping. Recovered, some replaced caps and resistors, but original OT. And the most recent original 125A4A(or was it 45268?) transformer was asking $700 IIRC. Repros were $120 or so.

The black recovered Showman seemed to sell for $1399+$130 shipping. Given the amp looked to have all its old(likely leaky) electrolytics and would likely get re-recovered, I didn't take it into a whole ton of consideration.

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Pyronauts

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1132
Northern CA
18 News Pins

Posted on May 03 2024 09:58 AM

I’m the one who bought the recovered Showman recently that has been mentioned above. I took some risks, but tonally this amp is a beast! My original thought was to recover/restore it cosmetically, but now because of the mojo that it has I am thinking of leaving it as is. The epiphany I had when I first plugged it in was that I don’t really care what it looks like… it only matters what it sounds like to me.

I can see how for a potential buyer for this 61 Showman having the cosmetics already done has value. It might help to make a video or a recording of this particular amp. I don’t think your asking price is out of line. If somebody wants it bad enough they’ll pop on it or make you an offer.

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duncanjames

Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 156

Posted on May 03 2024 09:40 PM

Pyronauts, cool to see you got that one! The black is definitely a unique look.

Just did another quick check of function with the camera rolling. I don't own a "real" reverb unit anymore, so the Surfy Bear will have to suffice. Surprisingly, the normal channel is seeming quieter than the vibrato channel. I'll check V1, make sure I didn't accidentally put a 12au7 in or something

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duncanjames Joined: Dec 20, 2011 Posts: 156	Posted on May 01 2024 08:57 PM Amp is sold, thanks everyone for the discussion! Last edited: May 14, 2024 22:58:33 Top
duncanjames Joined: Dec 20, 2011 Posts: 156	Posted on May 01 2024 09:11 PM Here's a video demonstrating the slowed tremolo. More a "note to self" video than something I expected to try to make a sale with, but that'll do for now! Top
SixStringSurfer Joined: Sep 23, 2014 Posts: 1401 Memphis, TN	Posted on May 01 2024 10:32 PM Could someone please explain to me if the replaced OT changes the way the amp sounds? How is it different from the original, tone wise? Thank you. — MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website. Top
duncanjames Joined: Dec 20, 2011 Posts: 156	Posted on May 01 2024 10:51 PM SixStringSurfer wrote: Could someone please explain to me if the replaced OT changes the way the amp sounds? How is it different from the original, tone wise? Thank you. I couldn't really speak on how it compares to the original, as this is how I got it. Somebody else might have a more direct A/B experience, though! Top
SixStringSurfer Joined: Sep 23, 2014 Posts: 1401 Memphis, TN	Posted on May 02 2024 09:48 AM Hi duncanjames, you have a gorgeous amp there. I really appreciate your honesty about the OT being replaced. I am not an expert, so somebody please correct me if I am wrong. If I purchased this amp, I would need to replace it with the Dick Dale OT to get the tone I want. This would be my second Showman (first one is a boutique 6G14 head that nailed the tone I am going for). I would have to take it to a local amp tech for installation, and he would have it for a minimum of three months. For the record, I never use the vibrato side, I only use the normal channel. I hope someone can confirm if I am correct, or if I am missing something. This is exactly why I am not buying Showman on Reverb. Nobody knows what has been done under the hood, because the owner hasn't posted any photos or sound clips. Thanks again for being upfront and honest about the OT. — MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website. Top
DeathTide Joined: Apr 13, 2018 Posts: 1378 New Orleans	Posted on May 02 2024 12:15 PM I don't know if Tonemaster made good transformers. If so, I'd guess the difference is marginal unless the specs are different. It does say 100w when I think the original was 85w (or 80w?). I'd guess the there might be a teensy more headroom. In my opinion, replacing the already-replaced OT would only be reasonable if it sounded (or felt) wrong. Price is good and lookit those beautiful blue molded caps! That's a big confidence-booster. I hope someone with more knowledge can chime in a correct anything I got wrong! — Daniel Deathtide Top
kick_the_reverb Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 1337 Escondido, CA	Posted on May 02 2024 01:08 PM This is a "for-sale" post. I don't know if the seller duncanjames is expecting a discussion here or not. Also, I started avoiding giving public advice here about this era of Showman amps because of too many "experts" chiming in with questionable information. duncanjames - if you're ok with feedback about the amp here (including non-positive) please say so. All the best and good luck with the sale. Ran — The Scimitars Top
duncanjames Joined: Dec 20, 2011 Posts: 156	Posted on May 02 2024 03:18 PM Happy to talk about it! I learned a lot about brown amps from discussions here back in the day, which is a large part of why I wanted to list it here before Reverb. To be clear, Tonemaster was the model name of one of the Fender custom shop amps back in the day. The Vibro King is the more well known amp from that line. Here's a stock photo stolen from Reverb. Looks like they've been selling for $1800-2300, so the transformers are probably decent. Top
kick_the_reverb Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 1337 Escondido, CA	Posted on May 02 2024 11:34 PM Ok, thanks for being open to discussion. I haven't found any specific info about the output transformer the Tonemaster used. But, a replacement OT, especially not one that even tries to replicate the original, is a big deal. Another drop in value is the fact it's recovered. Yet another issue is the drilled chassis. Further circuit mods and replacement parts also drop value. Now, it may sound great to you, but you need to compare it to a well-maintained Showman with original iron and all original blue molded caps to see how they compare. A point of reference: recently, a recovered (in black) amp with original iron and only 2 replacement caps sold for around $1200-$1300. So, I have a feeling your asking price might be on the high side. It's entirely possible that someone will pay this, but if not, you may find buyers at a lower price. As to anyone who had an amp built (and the builder decided to change this, that or the other), if you didn't do a head-to-head comparison to the real thing, you can't be certain on how close it is. Good luck to all, hope a reasonable deal is struck, all sides are happy, and the amp gets enjoyed by playing Surf music through it. Ran — The Scimitars Top
duncanjames Joined: Dec 20, 2011 Posts: 156	Posted on May 03 2024 02:40 AM kick_the_reverb thanks for your input! If nothing else, it's good to see what market values sit at these days. The more clear those numbers are, the less likely anybody's getting ripped off on either end. My asking price was based on the most recent sales I could find in similar condition. Particularly, one that sold about 20 days ago for $2799+$150 shipping. Recovered, some replaced caps and resistors, but original OT. And the most recent original 125A4A(or was it 45268?) transformer was asking $700 IIRC. Repros were $120 or so. The black recovered Showman seemed to sell for $1399+$130 shipping. Given the amp looked to have all its old(likely leaky) electrolytics and would likely get re-recovered, I didn't take it into a whole ton of consideration. Top
Pyronauts Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 1132 Northern CA	Posted on May 03 2024 09:58 AM I’m the one who bought the recovered Showman recently that has been mentioned above. I took some risks, but tonally this amp is a beast! My original thought was to recover/restore it cosmetically, but now because of the mojo that it has I am thinking of leaving it as is. The epiphany I had when I first plugged it in was that I don’t really care what it looks like… it only matters what it sounds like to me. I can see how for a potential buyer for this 61 Showman having the cosmetics already done has value. It might help to make a video or a recording of this particular amp. I don’t think your asking price is out of line. If somebody wants it bad enough they’ll pop on it or make you an offer. Top
duncanjames Joined: Dec 20, 2011 Posts: 156	Posted on May 03 2024 09:40 PM Pyronauts, cool to see you got that one! The black is definitely a unique look. Just did another quick check of function with the camera rolling. I don't own a "real" reverb unit anymore, so the Surfy Bear will have to suffice. Surprisingly, the normal channel is seeming quieter than the vibrato channel. I'll check V1, make sure I didn't accidentally put a 12au7 in or something Top

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FS: 1961 Fender Showman