Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Feb 28 2024 02:42 AM
I have a question for all of you. So, I am now recording using the cheapest but decent mic and interface (Focusrite) into DAW. Just nothing else at this point. I have a guitar sound I like in my room but want to better capture and process it before getting into DAW, surely being as analogue as possible here.
What you’d upgrade first? I was thinking about getting better interface with higher quality preamps and converters (like SSL2), or probably separate mic preamp? Mixer? Or a pair of good mics first? Or maybe just start building small 500 rack with proper preamp, compressor and eq?
Surely I am searching for a budget solutions.
I am really confused after watching 100 videos on Youtube.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Feb 28 2024 07:47 AM
As a fellow hobbyist, who read and experimented quite a bit but haven't produced something meaningful yet, the following 2 cents is IMHO:
Your interface is fine. If your only mic is cardioid, you can add a condenser or ribbon placed further/behind the cab to add color and options. Do you have better than entry level monitors/headphones?
So, many toys one can buy,
but treat the weakest link first, and in all home studios it is almost always room acoustics, and that's a whole can of worms.
Once improved, your monitoring will get closer to reflecting what was actually being recorded/mixed and will empower better decisions (monitoring with only headphones is not advisable, though results may vary.) It will also give you more freedom and probably headroom in capturing your cabinets.
Most important is to treat the symmetry at the listening position, eliminate 1st reflections as much as possible, prevent comb-filtering and reduce overall bass buildup. A cheap measurement mic will reveal what's generally going on. Many ways to go about it, read up on that, a lot to learn (and to spend... though a lot can be DIY).
Last edited: Feb 28, 2024 07:52:29
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Feb 28 2024 02:10 PM
Ariel wrote:
As a fellow hobbyist, who read and experimented quite a bit but haven't produced something meaningful yet, the following 2 cents is IMHO:
Your interface is fine. If your only mic is cardioid, you can add a condenser or ribbon placed further/behind the cab to add color and options. Do you have better than entry level monitors/headphones?
So, many toys one can buy,
but treat the weakest link first, and in all home studios it is almost always room acoustics, and that's a whole can of worms.
Once improved, your monitoring will get closer to reflecting what was actually being recorded/mixed and will empower better decisions (monitoring with only headphones is not advisable, though results may vary.) It will also give you more freedom and probably headroom in capturing your cabinets.
Most important is to treat the symmetry at the listening position, eliminate 1st reflections as much as possible, prevent comb-filtering and reduce overall bass buildup. A cheap measurement mic will reveal what's generally going on. Many ways to go about it, read up on that, a lot to learn (and to spend... though a lot can be DIY).
Thanks, that makes sense. Unfortunately I cannot change the room acoustics as I record in our bedroom. I have only a condenser mic and wanna add dynamic one. My headphones are entry level but I have a pair of small but decent Mackie monitors that I use. All of my recordings below are made with this setup but I think I may do better both in terms of learning and adding right gear.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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CrazyAces
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4052
Nashville, TN.
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Posted on Feb 28 2024 03:37 PM
I'm no expert at recording or engineering but I've done my share.
You have a condenser mic but those aren't often the best for recording electric guitar. It's hard to beat a classic Shure SM57 for guitar cabinet mic'ing but I'd also suggest a ribbon mic. They tend to need some extra gain but they can be very easy to work with in regards to getting recorded what you're hearing in the room or from the cab. I've used and still use a handful of affordable ($100 range USD) ribbon mics to record electric guitars and find them easier than any other type of microphone to get a good sound. You have to be conscious of proximity to the speaker as ribbon mics can pick up a lot of low end but otherwise I find I can drop them almost anywhere and get a good sound unlike directional dynamic or condenser mics. Something like the Nady RSM-5 works great.
— http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Feb 28 2024 11:52 PM
CrazyAces wrote:
I'm no expert at recording or engineering but I've done my share.
You have a condenser mic but those aren't often the best for recording electric guitar. It's hard to beat a classic Shure SM57 for guitar cabinet mic'ing but I'd also suggest a ribbon mic. They tend to need some extra gain but they can be very easy to work with in regards to getting recorded what you're hearing in the room or from the cab. I've used and still use a handful of affordable ($100 range USD) ribbon mics to record electric guitars and find them easier than any other type of microphone to get a good sound. You have to be conscious of proximity to the speaker as ribbon mics can pick up a lot of low end but otherwise I find I can drop them almost anywhere and get a good sound unlike directional dynamic or condenser mics. Something like the Nady RSM-5 works great.
Yes, I was looking at this price range of ribbon mics.
However almost everyone writes that the best way to record with two mics is to have a dynamic for close micing and condenser or ribbon for placing further from cab and taking a bit of a room sound.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Tikidog
Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 186
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Posted on Feb 29 2024 03:49 AM
I'd start with an SM57 Mic to get a nice tone from your cab.
Tons of great recordings were made just with this mic.
You could also think about a UAD Interface and use their plugins as a channel strip, compressor, revwerb, EQ, Mastering tool
I recommend a Neve 1073 channel strip, the 1176 compressor, Pultec EQs, EMT 140 and 250 plate reverb, Studer 800 for mastering.
You could also try to record without a mic and use an OX Box with the speaker/mic simulation or an IR solution ( Suhr Loadbox + IRs).
Spending money on analogue gear like preamps etc. is quite exoensive and since you record in your bedroom at low volume, the effects this stuff will have are limited.
An Apollo twin is around 900 € and you get a lot of plugins included....
https://www.thomann.de/de/universal_audio_apollo_twin_usb_duo_heritage.htm?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA84CvBhCaARIsAMkAvkLK-z78KzlHM-4DCoN02DaTBtuyBN7Wo6aUY91mkcDV1h3_1f6ndAEaArpKEALw_wcB
Last edited: Feb 29, 2024 03:52:10
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djangodeadman
Joined: Jan 25, 2007
Posts: 1566
Brighton UK
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Posted on Feb 29 2024 04:48 AM
Some carefully positioned duvets hanging from stands can provide some flexible and temporary accoustic treatment, which may help to get you better (and less roomy) recorded sounds. However, given that you are unable to do anything more permanent to improve the sound of the room, I would definitely consider a decent pair of open backed headphones for mixing purposes.
An SM57 is certainly a good and relatively affordable starting point for recording your amp.
Like Martin, I like Universal Audio gear, but it’s certainly not at the cheaper end of the spectrum. Your Focusrite will certainly be capable of providing perfectly acceptable results. If you wanted to use UAD plug-ins for mixing purposes, you could explore their native offerings, which can be had either via the Spark subscription, or by buying one of the native bundles.
— Los Fantasticos
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Feb 29 2024 05:04 AM
Tikidog wrote:
I'd start with an SM57 Mic to get a nice tone from your cab.
Tons of great recordings were made just with this mic.
You could also think about a UAD Interface and use their plugins as a channel strip, compressor, revwerb, EQ, Mastering tool
I recommend a Neve 1073 channel strip, the 1176 compressor, Pultec EQs, EMT 140 and 250 plate reverb, Studer 800 for mastering.
You could also try to record without a mic and use an OX Box with the speaker/mic simulation or an IR solution ( Suhr Loadbox + IRs).
Spending money on analogue gear like preamps etc. is quite exoensive and since you record in your bedroom at low volume, the effects this stuff will have are limited.
An Apollo twin is around 900 € and you get a lot of plugins included....
https://www.thomann.de/de/universal_audio_apollo_twin_usb_duo_heritage.htm?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA84CvBhCaARIsAMkAvkLK-z78KzlHM-4DCoN02DaTBtuyBN7Wo6aUY91mkcDV1h3_1f6ndAEaArpKEALw_wcB
I use Focusrite interface and a pile of plugins in DAW to process while mixing and mastering, but will check what UD offers.
I also use speaker simulated output from amp and mix it with miced track as you say, it works well but I think two mics will work better)
Thanks for a gear list, really useful!
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Feb 29 2024 05:08 AM
djangodeadman wrote:
Some carefully positioned duvets hanging from stands can provide some flexible and temporary accoustic treatment, which may help to get you better (and less roomy) recorded sounds. However, given that you are unable to do anything more permanent to improve the sound of the room, I would definitely consider a decent pair of open backed headphones for mixing purposes.
An SM57 is certainly a good and relatively affordable starting point for recording your amp.
Like Martin, I like Universal Audio gear, but it’s certainly not at the cheaper end of the spectrum. Your Focusrite will certainly be capable of providing perfectly acceptable results. If you wanted to use UAD plug-ins for mixing purposes, you could explore their native offerings, which can be had either via the Spark subscription, or by buying one of the native bundles.
Thanks, will check this. However I have a pile of plugins (AnalogObsession, iZotope, Valhalla, TwoNotes and others) in my DAW that I really happy with and half of them free.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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djangodeadman
Joined: Jan 25, 2007
Posts: 1566
Brighton UK
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Posted on Feb 29 2024 07:03 AM
Samurai wrote:
djangodeadman wrote:
Some carefully positioned duvets hanging from stands can provide some flexible and temporary accoustic treatment, which may help to get you better (and less roomy) recorded sounds. However, given that you are unable to do anything more permanent to improve the sound of the room, I would definitely consider a decent pair of open backed headphones for mixing purposes.
An SM57 is certainly a good and relatively affordable starting point for recording your amp.
Like Martin, I like Universal Audio gear, but it’s certainly not at the cheaper end of the spectrum. Your Focusrite will certainly be capable of providing perfectly acceptable results. If you wanted to use UAD plug-ins for mixing purposes, you could explore their native offerings, which can be had either via the Spark subscription, or by buying one of the native bundles.
Thanks, will check this. However I have a pile of plugins (AnalogObsession, iZotope, Valhalla, TwoNotes and others) in my DAW that I really happy with and half of them free.
If you’re happy with what you have, there’s really no need to go spending money on other plug-ins. Just focus on things that you do feel the need for. A good dynamic mic and/or a decent pair of open backed headphones, for example.
— Los Fantasticos
Last edited: Feb 29, 2024 07:38:26
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Feb 29 2024 09:51 AM
djangodeadman wrote:
Samurai wrote:
djangodeadman wrote:
Some carefully positioned duvets hanging from stands can provide some flexible and temporary accoustic treatment, which may help to get you better (and less roomy) recorded sounds. However, given that you are unable to do anything more permanent to improve the sound of the room, I would definitely consider a decent pair of open backed headphones for mixing purposes.
An SM57 is certainly a good and relatively affordable starting point for recording your amp.
Like Martin, I like Universal Audio gear, but it’s certainly not at the cheaper end of the spectrum. Your Focusrite will certainly be capable of providing perfectly acceptable results. If you wanted to use UAD plug-ins for mixing purposes, you could explore their native offerings, which can be had either via the Spark subscription, or by buying one of the native bundles.
Thanks, will check this. However I have a pile of plugins (AnalogObsession, iZotope, Valhalla, TwoNotes and others) in my DAW that I really happy with and half of them free.
If you’re happy with what you have, there’s really no need to go spending money on other plug-ins. Just focus on things that you do feel the need for. A good dynamic mic and/or a decent pair of open backed headphones, for example.
Thanks, that sounds like a plan!
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Mar 01 2024 01:03 AM
I decided to go with two budget and simple upgrades - SSL interface and Sennheiser E609 mic. Hope will be able to get them in April for my birthday)
I would stay with my Focusrite but it has only one mic input.
Concerning the room and acoustics - I will probably have a separate studio room a bit later and will try to make it sound better.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2230
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Mar 02 2024 06:32 AM
They now offer for free this plugin bundle mentioned above together with interface.
I guess it’s worth it?
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3797
North Atlantic
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Posted on Mar 02 2024 09:31 AM
I realize room acoustics are an important part of recording but as an avid home recorder I don’t have the opportunity to do any treatments. Instead I work with what I have, which can mean close miking a guitar cab or playing direct through my Superblock US. We have recorded drums in basements, living rooms, and bedrooms with no noticeable problems in sound. EQ has become the best tool for these situations. Now the recordings don’t sound like Steely Dan, but that is not the sound we are going for.
We’ve recorded for feature films using a 4 track cassette recorder, and have also recorded with some pretty heavy industry folks in some pretty great studios. The audio quality is indeed different, but the vibe of the performance and strength of the material/arrangements are really the key.
Take The Neanderthals for example. There is a wide range of recording environments between their albums; from trashy to pristine. I enjoy them all because of the vibe. They recorded at ToeRag in the UK, living rooms in Tennesee, and in some really nice studios.
https://www.discogs.com/artist/297190-The-Neanderthals
My main go to for home recording is an SM 57 on the guitar cab, an overhead, snare mic, and bd mic on drums, and bass direct with cab modelling. My interface is an Apogee Duet and I use Logic. The most important thing is to spend a lot of time with what you have, and know how to get the best results with it.
Daniel Lanois is another guy who records in unusual locations, albeit with much better gear, assistants, and experience than I have. I found reading about how he works is very helpful, even with my very limited gear.
Rev
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
Last edited: Mar 02, 2024 09:32:29
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djangodeadman
Joined: Jan 25, 2007
Posts: 1566
Brighton UK
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Posted on Mar 03 2024 04:02 AM
I know nothing about the SSL interface, but I would imagine it is good quality and it comes with what looks like a useful bundle of plug-ins.
The e609 is a good mic for guitar cabs. I use them a lot in live situations and I’m sure you would get good recordings with one. However, I think that an SM57 is a more versatile mic, as is the Audix i5.
The UAD Volt interfaces have been well reviewed, although I’ve not used one. The plug-ins in the included bundle would most likely be useful to you. Be careful, though, UAD stuff can be addictive!
— Los Fantasticos
Last edited: Mar 03, 2024 04:52:03
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