There would be something of a difference in sound when using the bridge pickup, but not the other pickups (unless combined with the bridge). The normal arrangement has the bridge pickup closest to the bridge for the higher tuned strings (B and E), making those a bit brighter. The Dick Dale setup makes the lower tuned strings (E and A) somewhat brighter and the higher tuned ones a bit more mellow. The effect on the D and G strings is probably not noticeable.

There’s surely may be a slight difference. But the key to Dick Dale sound is mostly his right hand.

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Kawentzmann wrote:

All hands and persons being equal, the gear question will stand. What I read somewhere (might have been the internet?), is that pick-ups were changed (partially?) during the 70s. And at the time of replacement there would have been a change of magnetic polarity or winding direction. Definitely in wire materials. Was there a change in sound between 60s and 70s? I guess the amp levels would be higher in the 90s for sure.

True, hands are fairly equal, but what you do with those hands can add a lot of variety. I have experimented with picking technique and been amazed by how much difference it makes.

Pickups changed somewhat, especially in the late ‘60s and that may have had an effect, but I would say that a lot of Dick Dale’s sound came down to picking technique, in his case, the left hand.

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chiba wrote:

I came up studying classical guitar. When you're playing in a space and have to rely on nothing but your hands and the natural reverb of the room, you realize quickly how much it matters where and with how much force your plucking fingers (or pick) hit the strings.

in the strictest, old school of classical instruction, the student was required to practice right hand technique only, at first, until they could master a round, full-sounding note and move from string to string fluidly. It’s been a while since I went through my old Aaron Shearer book, but I have fond memories.

It’s strange, because I started on an old Harmony acoustic archtop, graduated to a Harmony Rocket electric, and then gravitated to classical, which was my only instrument for years. I then pursued Jazz, on an electric archtop, ended up at classical for several more years, and when I first heard Classical Gas, I felt as if I had found my purpose in living; to master that song.

Eventually, I found my way back to electric. Now, I hardly ever play my classical. While the fingering chart is the same, I don’t really consider classical guitar and electric to have much in common. The technique is far different, but I’m very glad for tne classical technique I learned, which made the electric easier to tame. I still center my thumb on the back of the neck, literally every time I so much as play one note. After I had been playing for about 10 years, I went to another teacher, who had a classical background, but had branched into several other genres: Jazz, Country, and some dead-on Chet material. He insisted on proper technique, at all times. Even though I was an accomplished player at that time, and deriving my income from music, he made me start at square one, and I had to earn my way forward. He was tough, but we remain friends to this day. He taught me the discipline my playing lacked.

The ramifications are vast. By paying attention to technique, first and foremost, the struggles to capture a good sound become much less of an issue. The pure sound of a note played with proper RH technique is a great starting point, and then whatever you add in the way of instrument, amplifier and effects, has the best advantage, and gives the best sound. I’m no different from most of the guys here, I’m still looking for the Holy Grail of reverb drip, although Danny has given us a huge advantage in finding that there Grail, now that he did the foam thing.

But I never flounder, looking for a good overall sound, and I believe that is because tone starts in your hands. More than that, we have a non-Artificial-Intelligence feedback system which allows us to address our sound in real time, as we hear it. Every time I plug in a guitar, I reflexively strike an open G triad on the 2nd through 4th strings, which is my calibration for this non-AI system. The more consistent our technique, the more accurately we can adjust to different guitars, different amps, etc. If you think of the name players, they always sound like themselves, even though they may phase through different gear. In the final analysis, it still comes down to a pick (or bare digit) striking a string.

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Last edited: Jan 28, 2024 08:05:17

IvanP wrote:

I wrote about this whole experience at length somewhere on SG101, but I don't feel like searching for it right now (maybe somebody else will feel up to it), but in a nutshell: back in 2004 I went to see Dick live in Detroit, and since I was friends with his rhythm section (Dusty Watson and Sam Bolle), I ended up hanging out backstage with them for quite a while before the show. Lo and behold, Dick's Strat was just lying there, with him nowhere to be seen (he usually stayed in his RV until right before the show). I finally couldn't resist and asked the guys if I could try the guitar, to which they reluctantly agreed. Obviously, his Strat is strung for a right-handed player so I was able to easily play it, and I was completely amazed by several things about it: the neck was REALLY thin, a remarkable thing given that it's been able to handle Dick's massive strings for 45 years by that point; the action was VERY low (though there was no string buzz at all), making it comfortable to play with even insanely heavy gauge strings; the frets were seriously worn down, I couldn't even believe it; finally, and most importantly, just playing the guitar unplugged IT REALLY SOUNDED LIKE HIM! I think that after 45 years of exclusive use, that guitar's molecular composition morphed to the point that the wood became symbiotic with the player. The resonance and the tone of the unplugged guitar just immediately sounded like HIM.

OF COURSE Dick's hands, his touch, his inimitable style, etc., etc. and maybe even the pickup orientation all play a huge role in his tone. But I just wanted to add that I was simply blown away by how much the guitar itself seemed to color his sound, too. And I strongly suspect it was not necessarily like that when the guitar was new, it took 45 years of having him beat on that guitar like a maniac that it came to be what it is.

That’s wild. I’m most amazed by the condition you describe for the frets, etc.

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When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Dick did use the middle pickup a LOT back in the '60s, stuff like Hava Nagila, Taco Wagon, Night Rider, The Victor, that was all played on the middle pickup. I think Banzai Washout may have been the middle-and-neck combined, I believe the only recorded example of Dick using that in the '60s (though I hear he did use it more live). Once we get to his '70s Greatest Hits album with the rerecordings of so many of his '60s hits, he's now using that middle-and-neck-pickup combination a LOT. And then by the time we get to the '90s and beyond, it seems like it was all either bridge or the middle-and-neck pickups, which he still used quite a bit, any time he wanted to have a bit more mellower tone or a bit more texture. For sheer power, he went with the bridge pickup - though I actually prefer his '60s middle-pickup sound for that sheer power. Anyway, just a few thoughts, from somebody that also loves Dick's style and sound!

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Ivan, tell me if I'm wrong but didn't you mention in that thread from years ago that not only were the frets very low, but they were pitted from string wear, and you were surprised it could even ring properly? Maybe I'm wrong.

I've got a strat that is going for a full manicure today and re-crown. I had done some fret dressing to remove some pitting, but it still doesn't ring well in some places unless you raise the strings.

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DeathTide wrote:

I read that account of yours and it's great. The observations of the Beast are just crazy awesome. I wonder what happened to that guitar?

I'm pretty sure Dick's widow Lana has the guitar. As far as I know she's never offered to make it available to a museum or anything of the sort. I haven't heard anything about it since Dick's passing.

I guess a museum would be the best place for it, but damn I'd love to see someone else blazing surf on it. I wonder how that would sound... I mean, has ANYONE else ever played the Beast?

Besides Dick's roadies, I don't think so, at least through an amp or certainly Dick's amps. At least I've never seen such a thing.

stratdancer wrote:

Ivan, tell me if I'm wrong but didn't you mention in that thread from years ago that not only were the frets very low, but they were pitted from string wear, and you were surprised it could even ring properly? Maybe I'm wrong.

No, that's exactly right! The frets were in awful shape! I was really shocked.

I've got a strat that is going for a full manicure today and re-crown. I had done some fret dressing to remove some pitting, but it still doesn't ring well in some places unless you raise the strings.

Good luck getting that fixed up! I'm sure it'll be awesome when it's done!

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DeathTide wrote:

IvanP wrote:

the action was VERY low (though there was no string buzz at all

What in blazes?! My biggest problem is with fret buzz, because I enjoy slamming the stings as hard as possible. So my action is like 3/8" or even higher, on all guitars. I notice if I don't hit as hard, the buzzing is gone, but the sound and feel just doesn't excite me. The guitar tech shook his head and tried to tell me how I don't have to hit the strings so hard. I told him that I like the sound and the feeling of it, and no other technique can satisfy. He shrugged and did his best. I l love it when other people know, better than me, what makes me happy. Anyhow that's why I also use a .060 for the low E, because any thinner and the action must be just too high. Is that a strat thing vs. the jaguars I play? It also happens on the JM.

I read that account of yours and it's great. I loved how you didn't flinch from calling out his misogynist shit. The observations of the Beast are just crazy awesome. I wonder what happened to that guitar? I guess a museum would be the best place for it, but damn I'd love to see someone else blazing surf on it. I wonder how that would sound... I mean, has ANYONE else ever played the Beast?

If anyone had a link to that older post of Ivan’s, I’d love to read it. I tried searching, but got buried in replies.

stratdancer wrote:

Ivan, this clearly illustrates his power and hand strength to override what would be dead sounds on his neck. The neck of my Aztec Gold strat had a few dead spots that just didn't ring well. I had tried re-crowning but when visiting the luthier, we measured the frets from 15 on up and they were ten thousands higher than the working end of the neck. He has to do a complete fret level and re-crown to get the action down where I want it.

Dick, on the other hand, most definitely had more hand strength to push the notes down with those big strings to get the tone. Perhaps some of his amazing tone can be attributed to a slightly dead fret tone but overridden by strength and shear volume.

The whole thing astounds me. I’m currently fighting a bit of fret buzz on my recent Warmoth Jaguar build. It’s minor, just a bit of an edge, but it’s a bear to get rid of, even after some serious work with the fret file and the crowning file.

That being said, having never met him, my impression is that he was a fairly strong fellow, in his day, but the one time I saw him in person was roughly 2011, and he seemed a bit frail, at least from a distance, as I watched him walk.

Sometimes, everything just works, and a guitar is exceptionally playable. My Squier CV ‘70s Jaguar is that way. It’s as if it wants to play well, and sound good. It’s Warmoth sibling, at 6x the price isn’t a bad guitar, but it makes me work harder to obtain playability.

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Everyone should file their frets flat to get the Dick Dale tone!

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