Samurai wrote:

You make me think I am the only one whose studio is a notebook and 2 channel interface in the bedroom corner)

The beauty of the situation is that multi track recording of reasonable quality is within reach, even with fairly simple equipment. I’ve been doing home recording since the ‘90s, and it was nearly miraculous back then, to be able to track three instruments using the microphone input of the sound card in a computer and a $20 piece of software. We’ve come a long way since then, with tablet computers and smartphones that can be accessed with recording interfaces.

The main reason I use the Zoom R8 is that it gives me good quality, and is easy to use. I’ve used Fusion on a Macintosh, and it’s a great tool, but I never came close to using all of its capabilities, and I didn’t use it often enough to ever become completely comfortable with it.

What amazes me, is that we now have at our fingertips capabilities that would have been quite impressive back in the days when the Beatles were using Abbey Road. We don’t have the high end preamps of Abbey Road, but I can access a model of its plate reverb from a pedal, and the sound is quite good. At one time, I had contemplated building a plate reverb unit, but it’s not really needed in our day.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Samurai wrote:

stratdancer wrote:

Samurai wrote:

You make me think I am the only one whose studio is a notebook and 2 channel interface in the bedroom corner)

Think about how far technology has come. Your recordings sound great!

That makes me a little more comfortable, thanks)

I’ve always thought that your material sounded great.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

One of the greatest drawbacks of my recording studio is the lack of collaboration. The ability of sharing files with someone around the world is how things are done these days. I am stuck having everyone come to my house to track. That's why I generally just bring in the drummer and do everything else myself. I don't love writing and perfecting bass tracks for one. I've got another Metabolites song to finish the bass part for. I want something that will take a lot of quirk and imagination. I'd just assume email the song file and have my current bassist explore it and email back some of his ideas and recordings.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

On Climate of Catastrophe, I wanted a Geddy Lee style rumble. The bass player for the Kings worked on it at home then came in to track it. We had trouble with the tone and he didn't have enough time in the studio. He could have been doing all of this at home and sending submissions. I found a great, inexpensive bass preamp that helped create the drive I wanted. I ended up writing the track and practicing for weeks to get that good flamenco, two finger tone that Geddy is known for and fighting through the recording myself.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

stratdancer wrote:

One of the greatest drawbacks of my recording studio is the lack of collaboration. The ability of sharing files with someone around the world is how things are done these days. I am stuck having everyone come to my house to track. That's why I generally just bring in the drummer and do everything else myself. I don't love writing and perfecting bass tracks for one. I've got another Metabolites song to finish the bass part for. I want something that will take a lot of quirk and imagination. I'd just assume email the song file and have my current bassist explore it and email back some of his ideas and recordings.

That is a major problem for me, as well. I can play Rhythm guitar, and add a respectable bass part, but playing against a rhythm section that is comprised solely of myself is not the same as collaboration with other players.

Rhythm is part of life, and I believe that in any sort of collaboration, it is the cooperation of two or more sentient beings, each contributing from their own internal timekeeper, which allows the result of the efforts to be compounded into something at least somewhat greater than the sum of the individual inputs.

Translation: if two people are raking leaves in the yard, it will take less than half the time it would have taken with one person alone, because of the intangible, but very real, aspect of moral support. We hold doors open for strangers, and show consideration for others because it makes life better, overall.

Applying this to music, I have long felt that ensemble music derives its emotional energy from the efforts of multiple persons, each with their own internal clock, heartbeat and respiration rate. One of my favorite Jazz pianists was Bill Evans. Listening to his work with the Bill Evans Trio is a study in interplay between the piano and bass, with a drummer keeping everything tied together. OTOH, Evans double-tracked album, Conversations With Myself, lacks the tension of his trio work. When he plays the second piano part, he is interacting with himself, and it left me cold. There’s just nothing interesting going on. I won’t go so far as to say that every recording where one artist plays every track has the same effect on me, because that is not the case, but there is something about Bill Evans improvising against himself that just doesn’t work; there’s no internal tension, and the improv’ seems riskless.

My most recent recording effort was a Surf tune I wrote, strictly to have access to a song I could post and/or distribute without any copyright concerns. I am playing guitar, bass and a Bass VI part, against the rhythm pattern provided in my Zoom R8. The recording came out sounding OK, but I would love to have someone else play the bass part, because I think it would add something I can’t accomplish alone. However, the recording works far better than I might have expected, because the parts were not necessarily recorded on the same day, so there is a degree of variety in the feel of each instrument’s track.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

stratdancer wrote:

Very well said Synchro! It's funny that you talk about the collaboration effect. This has been a hot topic of mine in the last 48 hours as I have been going back in time and revisiting the collaborative efforts of an old band I loved in my teens. Blue Oyster Cult was all collaborative. In fact, I have found it quite striking the intellect of this band and how their main focus was the sum of the music, and everyone gave input. They all lived together in the same house for years until they made success with Agents of Fortune. Music history is full of aspiring for the sum.

Perhaps, it would make sense for me to explore a computer based recording method and bring a simpler way to collaborate but time constraints certainly prevent the learning curve right now.

There are bands, and then again, there are bands. The Beatles greatest asset, IMHO, was that their cohesiveness allowed the massive talents in the band to work together, and to compliment one another’s abilities. The Shadows are another example of a group that stayed together long enough to really gel. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger definitely have some of that same cohesiveness in their favor, as well.

The biggest enemy of this, ironically, is fame. When the band reaches the level where individual members become widely famed, there is a natural tendency for these members to want to branch out, and to express themselves apart from the rest of the band. In most cases, the results are not as good as the original band.

Years ago, I participated in recording an album’s worth of material, but before we could complete post-prod’ work, one of the musicians decided to take a powder. It’s a shame, because collaboratively, it was excellent work, but I’m not about to use these recordings and memorialize someone who walked out of the band without so much as informing us that he was departing.

I’ve read accounts of various recordings and in more than a few cases the bands had a common home, rented near to the studio. I can definitively see an advantage to this approach. Much like collaborating in business, or even diplomatic efforts, a significsnt part of the accomplishment comes about because of informal talks during breaks, etc. When the pressure is off, it can be easier to put one’s ego aside and to compromise for the greater good.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Samurai wrote:

That may be an interesting topic to bring into discussion. I was in multiple situations: having a cohesiveness of several people, leading a band of musicians that just play what you tell, playing in a band when everybody has different views, playing a one man band, and I surely ready to discuss and share my experience.

In any collaborative project, the question of who calls the shots will, invariably, come up. This is one of the reasons that record producers are so important, and it’s probably the reason that bands don’t always succeed when they decide to produce themselves. The recording process is a place where the creative process goes head-to-head with business realities. As an exaggerated illustration, the band might live together in one house, and work up new material in relative leisure, but when they get to a commercial studio, every tick of the clock costs money. We hear about big budget recordings, even back in the ‘60s or ‘70s, but most bands didn’t have that much backing, and needed to keep things moving.

As a major Eagles fan, I have read about their collaborations, and IIRC, Henley and Frey would rent a house and move in together as a way to foster creativity. I believe that by the late ‘70s, there was too much tension to continue the process, but it definitely resulted in some great songs.

In the band I worked with, it was a two man effort, with the bassist and I working most closely, by the time we had been together for e few years. Either of us might suggest a song, but I usually would make some suggestions regarding the overall arrangement, or perhaps I might suggest that he play certain passages in a certain manor, but for the most part, I didn’t worry about the bass part, so long as he knew the changes and was playing something that worked.

When I’ve recorded alone, naturally, I become producer, session guitarist, session bassist and possibly composer. In these situations, I usually develop a bass part to my liking, and if I want a special part in some passage, I don’t even have to write it out.

This happened when I was recording the song I hope to submit to the next Surf Guitar 101, compilation. Near the end of the bridge, there is a passage where the chords are C Maj, B7, E7, Am, except in the third run through, where to guitar part is improvised and I use C Maj, B7, Bb7, Am; a flat-five substitution, but I want the bass line to reflect this same chromaticism, so this part of the song doesn’t leave much room for interpretation. If I play the bass line, I will play a Bb for that measure, and if anyone else plays the bass line, I would be open to suggestions, but I doubt that there’s a better way to express this change, than having the bass line go from B natural to Bb.

The line between collaboration and “my way or the highway” can easily become quite thin.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Perhaps, it would make sense for me to explore a computer based recording method and bring a simpler way to collaborate but time constraints certainly prevent the learning curve right now.

FWIW, I put off "learning" Pro Tools for years, thought it would be cumbersome for a self admitted non-computer person. I did a few in store clinics for Digi/Avid and as payment they gave me an Mbox (years ago now) and my friend who worked for them gave me some lessons with the software. The lessons were all of an hour and I was off and running recording music.
I laughed at myself a bit for putting off the endeavor of learning the software thinking it would take a long time. I was on the road at the time and could have been recording and writing in hotel rooms. Time wasted due to my own preconceptions. Tutorial books filled in the rest easily and quickly. I still keep such a book next to my recording computer for quick reference to a forgetful mind, ha ha.
File sharing with distant friends due to this type of recording has been very rewarding and made collaborations possible that otherwise would be impossible.
I'd encourage you to pick a platform and dive in, the rewards and possibilities are endless but it doesn't have to be complicated. I still use Pro Tools largely as a recorder, editor. Just because it has a million bells and whistles doesn't mean I have to complicate things for myself and use them.
Funny thing is, my brain still likes stand alone units like the Zoom, iPad or Tascam stuff for writing but I think that's purely because that's how and when I grew up.

http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic

synchro wrote:

Any recording I do, at this point, is purely for my own enjoyment, and hopefully for the enjoyment of a friend or two. Compared to DAW recording, a Zoom is very limited, but I can switch it on and be recording at a moment’s notice. I work with complex software every day, managing firewalls and an elaborate proxy system which spans several continents, so it’s not so much a matter of technophobia as it is a matter of wanting my music to to be a counterbalance to my day job. If I get too deep into the software aspect of recording, I am mentally in the same headspace as I would be at work, but that’s just me.

This I totally understand.
As useful as something like Pro Tools is, I still don't naturally equate turning on a computer to creating things. It's a different mindset for sure and I can understand how a computer or software would be the last thing you might want to see after working with it all day.
For me, the most fun and inspiration is when everyone is in a room together, playing simultaneously, getting inspiration off each other. It's just not always possible.

http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic

CrazyAces wrote:

FWIW, I put off "learning" Pro Tools for years, thought it would be cumbersome for a self admitted non-computer person. I did a few in store clinics for Digi/Avid and as payment they gave me an Mbox (years ago now) and my friend who worked for them gave me some lessons with the software. The lessons were all of an hour and I was off and running recording music.

I couldn't wait to make the leap from a Tascam 4-track to a real ProTools rig ... in 2001. I'm still using the same Digi001 interface from back then and PT LE 6.4 - hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? I fear the day my recording computer finally craps out, because I'm fully 20 years behind on ProTools technology. If I ever do decide to upgrade, it's going to be expensive.

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